On female character and fandom - with woes, icon maker wanted, flu worries and no to naked hiking

[misscam]

So there was this secret posted over at fandomsecrets and this resulting huge discussion. With bonus slash mentions.

Now granted, it is very possible to dislike a female character due to the writing of her - finding it sexist, unrealistic or otherwise. But if you can't find even one you like? Then I start to think it's a deeper issue.

See, the problem with sexism isn't just that it lingers in a good deal of men - women can be incredible sexist about women. Old shit lingers, and a lot gets fed into us as young. Sadly, we often pass it on. (We being humans in general, in this case.) Prejudice, sexism, general stupid - hoo yeah.

I've seen female characters get raked over coals for things male characters get a pass on. I've seen flaws turned into vilification. And my own pet peeve, sexual slurs used against women (whore, slut etc) when the character might not even be that sexually active. And even if she is, it's still nasty. (Because really, sex being used against women as if it's something wrong with them? Deeply troubling on several levels.) I've seen female characters get slammed if they're not badass, if they are badass, if they're feminine, if they have "too much balls", if they're pretty, if they're not pretty enough, if they're selfish, if they're selfless and thus deemed "pushovers", if they don't rise above society's prejudices, if they do rise - being too "above their station", gag me with a spoon.

It bugs me. Because too often it's impossible standards and too often male characters get tons of admiration for 'being flawed' when female characters get only judgment. And often fics that smack them around some.

Now, I'm not saying you must love all female characters or be sexist. There are characters I don't like, or are indifferent to. But I do think that sometimes, it's good to consider your own motivations and what prejudices might linger in you.

There's a lot of old shit out there. That doesn't mean we have to accept living with the smell. If you can't even find one female character to like, maybe it's time to clean a little.

Meanwhile, here are some female characters I love - with their flaws, for their flaws, despite their flaws and sometimes all three at once. (Some - these are not all my favourites, just some of them.)

Galadriel. Passes her own test to not take the One Ring even when offered, and keeps her kingdom safe until the end of times. Also a little scary.

Laura Roslin. Proof that it is possible to grow into unexpected responsibility and also that responsibility carries a heavy toll. Realistic and pragmatic and a little scary as President, also lovely to see her heart with Bill.

Donna Noble. Rude and ginger. Perhaps in some ways considered "average" by people around her, but you know what? Average people have a lot of awesome in them. There's just not always the chance to develop it or show it. Donna did. (And under here, I could have put so many of the Doctor's other companions too.)

Miranda Bailey. Bailey is scary, strict and one to make your life hell if do something fucking stupid. Because caring is not always the same as being nice constantly. Bailey kicks ass, and is awesome at it - and a loving mother at the same time.

Tyrande Whisperwind. Arrogant and occasionally bitchy, Tyrande has lead her people as priestess and warrior both. She'll make her own decisions, and even if her heart - Malfurion - sleeps in the emerald dream, she stays hands-on to guide the night elves into a future without immortality.

Barbara Havers. A lot of people would count stuff against her. Working class, family issues, pain in the ass about accepting authority, unflattering wardrobe and trying to hold her own in a male-dominated police force. Therefore, it's all the more admirable that most of the time, she does hold her own.

Lady Sybil Deidre Olgivanna Vimes (née Ramkin), Duchess of Ankh. Kind, compassionate and darns socks despite being rich as whoa. Married to Sam Vimes, which in itself is grounds for awesome, but I love Lady Sybil because she has the fortune to do everything she wants and still chooses to do things for other reasons. Could probably run the whole Discworld with her friends from schooldays if they don't already.

Feel free to add your own female characters you deem awesome.

I'm looking for an icon maker again. Yeah, I know. Am willing to pay, etc. It's one icon for a friend of mine, and a lot of WoW icons from screencaps I have and a few BSG ones. Poke me if you're interested.

So the world is really worried about flu outbraks in Mexico. With only twenty confirmed deaths (so far), it does come across a bit like hysteria at first, but then I read a book last week about the great flu pandemic of 1918 - and I'll take hysteria over ignoring outbreaks, quite frankly. I like people. I don't want millions to die. Just don't freak the frak out totally, yeah?

Swiss canton decides to fine naked hikers. What truly made me boggle was the small note about how conservative this canton was and women got the right to vote in 1990. Um. Wow. 1990? I even remember 1990. I broke my hand at school that year. Ow.

So sexism? It ain't that dead and it ain't that ancient.

Meanwhile, my shit weekend of shit continued that way and also included my team losing their match, my knee acting up and my guild doing a stupid amount of wiping in Ulduar when trying Boss With Most Annoying Voice Ever. Sigh.

This morning, it rained and NSB was up to the same stupidity as always. That's three times in one week, which is bad even for them. I swear, if I don't get just one happy yay thing soon, I'm going to go emo Viking and sulk in my longboat for a week. Or something.

Comments

[honorh.livejournal.com]

It bugs the hell out of me when female characters get bashed for things male characters would be cheered for. I've said repeatedly that Jack is the biggest Sue that New Who has yet seen, and if he'd been female? Whoo, nelly, he would not have a spinoff show! But people loved Jack, and Rose and, in her turn, Martha got the Sue label flung at them. Not to say I don't love Jack, because I do, but seriously.

And then there's the Gwen bashing. "The Whore of Cardiff," I've seen her called. Really? Because we've seen her sleep with two men, one of whom is now her husband. Hmm, same number of onscreen sexual contacts as Tosh, that. And who flirted his way into Torchwood and was possibly screwing Jack while keeping his Cyberized girlfriend a secret? That would be sweet woobie Ianto. And we won't even get into Owen and Jack. But Gwen's the whore.

Unfortunately, it goes way back. Those are my two latest fandoms, but the same ugliness has occurred in every single other one I've had.

I'll celebrate the women of the Dresden Files:

--Karrin Murphy, a little five-foot-nuthin' gal who's been known to put the hurt on men twice her size and is one of the only people who can call Harry on his shit when he ventures shit-ward.

--Susan Rodriguez, Harry's old lover who must now struggle against her semi-vampiric nature. She lost the man she loved and gained a mission, and last we saw, she was still going strong.

--Charity Carpenter, mother of seven, who went marching into a literal frozen hell to rescue her daughter, and who is still one of the only people who can outright scare Harry. Her husband may be the Knight of the Cross, but she's a warrior in her own right.

--Molly Carpenter, the aforementioned daughter and Harry's strong-willed apprentice. She's had a lot of hard, hard lessons in the past few years, but she's shown she can learn.

--Lara Raith, White Court vampire, occasional wary ally of Harry's and all-around bad news, but wow, she rocks. She made a puppet out of her own father and now runs the entire White Court from behind the scenes. Trust me, you do not want to get on her bad side. Mess with Lara's family and she will take you down--and she'll enjoy doing it.

[misscam.livejournal.com]

Don't even get me started on Rose and Martha and some of the stuff I've seen about them both. I mean, I eyeroll at some of the overdone idealization of either, but no need to so far in the other direction that becomes too extreme too.

I tend to stay away from TOrchwood fandom and some of the stuff I see flung around about Gwen is part of the reason. And whore should just be banned from used against women ever unless they're actually prostitutes. And even then I am not that keen on it.

Never watched Dresden Files. Sadly?

[platypus]

As a person who hadn't read the books first -- the Dresden Files TV show was really good and all too brief. But I don't recognize half the references here, so I'll say honorh is talking about book canon :).

[honorh.livejournal.com]

Yep, talking about the books. They seriously rock. Seriously.

[misscam.livejournal.com]

Aha. Well, I am always on the search for books, given how much I read.

[lydia-petze.livejournal.com]

I've read all the books and watched the series. Series was OK. Books are awesome ;-)

[puredeadthingy.livejournal.com]

Read them. The books are very addictive.

[lydia-petze.livejournal.com]

Tell me about it. I hung out four months for Turn Coat and finished it in about two days. /sadface

[ithildyn.livejournal.com]

And who flirted his way into Torchwood and was possibly screwing Jack while keeping his Cyberized girlfriend a secret? That would be sweet woobie Ianto.

Thank you! I've said from day one that if Ianto had been a female character, he would be vilified by many of the same people who adore him. Starting with his job description. Wasn't it Owen who called him 'the tea boy'? And yet Gwen is the one that gets dumped on?

[misscam.livejournal.com]

If you have a penis, it's all good, apparently. /eyeroll

(Not that I dislike Ianto - I don't. But he is not a saint to Gwen as a she-devil, come on!)

[phdelicious.livejournal.com]

And who flirted his way into Torchwood and was possibly screwing Jack while keeping his Cyberized girlfriend a secret? That would be sweet woobie Ianto.

Oh thank god! I enjoy the show, but I find that I CANT participate in the fandom because of this kind of stuff.

[elspethdixon.livejournal.com]

Seconding the love for Murphy and the Carpenter women (I was actually kind of disappointed that they cast someone comparatively tall -- or at least, not short -- to play her in the tv show. Tiny!badass!book!Murphy is awesome). The Dresden Files aren't completely free from sexism, but they are refreshingly free from major female characters who are fragile damsels in distress.

[meganbmoore.livejournal.com]

CHARITY!

*draws hearts and flowers all over her*

Sorry, I sometimes think I'm the only one who likes her.

[lydia-petze.livejournal.com]

DRESDEN FILES \o/

Also, I don't get the Gwen-hate. I think I'm the only person I know who likes her.

Here from Metafandom

[duskyfox.livejournal.com]

I think a big part of the Gwen-hate is that she started as a p.o.v character for people who aren't familiar with sci-fi, but because of her expertise became more-or-less second in command. So you have this chick who waltzes in knowing less than nothing about the world in which she's now operating, but is being given a lot of autonomy. It grates. It grates because a lot of Gwen's mistakes are a combination of ignorance and a smidge of self-righteousness, like in "They Keep Killing Suzie." Gwen makes mistakes which could be avoided if she would just ask someone who knows better, but she doesn't often recognize that they do. Jack was a bit of a Gary Stu, but at least he had time-travelled and had a comparatively large base of knowledge. Gwen just got there, didn't always seem to be up on protocol, but was in the thick of it anyway.

There's also the fact that other character's mistakes come from their sheer screwed-up-edness, which makes them easier to sympathize with - for me at least. The girl-next-door trying to deal with the sci-fi life doesn't do much for me. I don't care that she had a hard time separating her work from her home life - I've seen other shows deal with that trope repeatedly and do it better. I'm more interested in characters like Tosh and Ianto, who have been dealing with it and are showing cracks and problems and are a little not-quite-right (oh, don't even get me started on the short-shaft Tosh got in this show).

But that's just me.

[dracothelizard.livejournal.com]

With regards to Doctor Who, I suspect that if Lady Christina was a man, there'd be a lot of squee and slash written. Since she's a woman, she's too much of a Mary Sue and has no character.

[coneyislandbaby]

While I agree, there haven't been piles of slash written with Jackson Lake, who is similarly one off and male (and even has woobie-ish characteristics), though he was a good guy, which may or may not have something to do with it. I mean the guy had sizzling chemistry with Ten (and Tennant for that matter) so... it can't all be the gender here. IMO anyway. Still not cool with Christina being called a whore, though.