Naming and shaming and principles of law

[misscam]

So this is what Norway's talking about today.

Now I didn't listen to the radio broadcast where these two guys were accused of the rape attempt, but I did quickly learn who had been named by the way of Internet grapevine. And they're high profile names.* Really, even if the rest of the media don't use their names, they're already out there.

The statue of limitations is well past, so this case will never be tried in any court of law. So instead it seems to be tried in the court of public opinion and media circus. And oi. This thing makes me troubled for so many reasons.

1) It's hijacked the focus away from the very troubling rise in rapes the last few weeks and what we might do about it. This will so take over - it involves celebrities and controversy and sensationalism. Oh yeah, it'll take over. It's going to be all about this case rather than rape itself.

2) These two guys won't be able to defend themselves. A lot of people will probably doubt the accusations, but they'll still be there, lingering. I have no sympathy at all - and quite a lot of anger - for rapists, but everyone, and I do mean everyone, has a right to be considered innocent until proven otherwise. I do understand the rage and the desire to want the one(s) behind such a decipable act named, shamed and punished. Oh yeah, I understand. But society has to work on principles of law.

3) The way this was brought up ain't gonna do victim credability in rape cases any favours, I fear. Which already is enough to fill me with a sort of sad rage. I don't think we're the worst in the world in this area exactly, but everyone everywhere have ways to go on this issue.

4) If this is a PR stunt, there's not going to be enough nasty expressions in the world for how appalled I will be. You do not use rape for that. You do not.

5) If it is true, I will be appalled too. Rapists can turn out to be the most surprising and unlikely of people. And that's just as sad as the rest, really.

6) I am probably never going to know if it's 4 or 5, so I am left just feeling uncomfortable and troubled.

Sigh. All I know is that rape is about the shittiest thing you can do to another human being short of murder and it should not be trivialized before the law, the media or the victims. And in this case, I have a feeling it will be.

*I am not going to name them on here, so don't ask.

Comments

[http://users.livejournal.com/_tallian_/]

Holy crapulance. Talk about poor judgement. I'm not quite sure how to feel about this one, other than glad the media is taking the high road and not naming the accused.

[misscam.livejournal.com]

Reminds to see if it'll last. The names are all over the Norwegian blog-sphere, not to mention NRK itself had a copy of the broadcast where the guys were named up on their server for hours before yanked. Wouldn't surprise me if at least one media outlet decided to claim the names were already in the public domain and thus publish.

This is gonna get nasty. On her, on them, on the media. Fuck.

[calapine.livejournal.com]

Norway has a statute of limitation on rape? I find that kinda scary. Is that the same for all crimes?

[falena]

Let it just not be a publicity stunt. That would be beyond horrid.

[misscam.livejournal.com]

On attempted rape, yes. The statue is on reporting it to the police. After that much time, they consider the evidence to have vanished, basically, or be in such poor state it doesn't hold up in court.

I think we have a statue on quite a few crimes. I know Sweden has it on murder (though it is a lot longer than ten years), as the famous Olof Palme murder will hit the statue of limitations in not too long. I suspect Norway has similar laws to Sweden, but don't quote me on it. I would have to check.

[misscam.livejournal.com]

It would be quite horrid too if it is true and gets branded a publicity stunt.

I see horrid all around, really.

[falena]

Oh yes, that wouldn't be any better. Gah.

[misscam.livejournal.com]

No indeed. I don't even know which of them I would prefer.

Blah. Fucked up. I wish I was home snoozing, this is all depressing me.

[falena]

Something is royally fucked up when you can't even decid which is the lesser of the two evils, indeed. :(

Um, get yourself a cup of tea or possibly some chocolate and distract yourself with fandom wank? Or maybe just focus on work?

[norwegianne.livejournal.com]

One of the unfortunate things about this case, in my opinion, other than the ones you stated above, is the fact that it came out just after the whole Valla/Yssen debacle was "resolved" and so the media needed something else high-profile to take its place. I have no doubt that VG & Dagbladet will keep squeezing this story as long as they can, or until something better comes along.

[misscam.livejournal.com]

Oh, I only have fiften minutes left at work and have finished the stuff I had to do and it would take too long to start something new, so is kinda pointless.

BTW, I have finished the book you gave me on Italians, so now I am reading another on the train to and from work - "Berlusconis Italia", which is written by a Norwegian who's lived in Italy for decades. Is deeply fascinating.

But your country is bananas, you know that, right? Not all in a bad way, but... Bananas.

[misscam.livejournal.com]

And I was just saying the other day how sick I was of the whole Valla-Yssen thing and wanted something else to get the media's attention. I just totally cursed this to happen, didn't I?

I saw this case was on the front pages of both VG and Dagbladet today. What shock. Oh yeah, it's gonna be with us with a while. If one or both of the guys go public or get named, it'll get bigger still.

Blah.

[falena]

Well, you'll be free soon then. Yay!

Oh, if you like 'more serious' books on modern Italy, I have a couple titles to recommend. I didn't send them too because I didn't want to scare you. :P

Oh yes, we most definitely are. I love my country but I can't make sense of it half the time. Heh.

[norwegianne.livejournal.com]

You totally did. I'm blaming this on you.

I just fail to see the point of dragging this case out in the public, with names and everything, years after it happened, and years after anything could be done about it. Yes - rapists should be punished. I'm not saying anything against that - but is there a point to dragging it out in public like this, without any evidence?

[lickerish.livejournal.com]

Hi,

I have been trying to get a hold of you via email to no avail. Could you let me know about the status of things?

Thanks,

Chelsea

[misscam.livejournal.com]

Didn't you get my e-mail? Package has been sent and all. B-mail, as it was cheaper, so it should be there in anything from a week to closer to a month.

[misscam.livejournal.com]

Mmm. I see the claim of it being for feminism wasn't recieved all that well by feminists. While I can understanding not reporting something like that, as reporting a rape or attempted rape to the police is very hard, the way it came forth now does sit too comfortably with me.

Maybe it's the public shit-storm that will now assault us that gives me headaches already.

[yattara.livejournal.com]

This is just nasty whatever way you look at it.

[yattara.livejournal.com]

Euhm, whatever the outcome might be, that is.

[misscam.livejournal.com]

I am free now. And cooking, actually.

Heh, well, I felt after getting an Italian view of Italy, a Norwegian view would be interesting as well and bound to differ a bit. But yeah, I am interested in the more serious as well. It's so different to Norway I find it totally fascinating.

Your politics is like trying to navigate a minefield using a map written by Germans in Italian, Babelfished into Spanished, translated by Spanish into French and Babelfished into Italian again.

[falena]

How I envy you. I'm translating an annual report by the French Cour de Cassation. I just want to weep. Legal French kicks my arse so much. :(

Two books I highly recommend (both written by British journalists): The New Italians by Charles Richards and The Dark Heart of Italy by Tobias Jones. The New Italians is not exactly recent (it was first published in 1994, I think) but it's still a great book.
They both cover, among other things, the past 30 years of Italian history in a (more or less) objective manner - something terribly rare in Italy. A most interesting read, oh yes.

That is the best description of Italian politics ever. *lol* I probably wouldn't understand half of it myself (like 70% of Italians, maybe?) if it wasn't for my father. I'm not kidding. He is my 'historical memory', he helps me remember who was allied with whom and what party they used to belong to (parties change names every few years, or so it seems. My favourite one, right now, is one called "Italia di mezzo" simply because of the Tolkien reference. Middle Earth in Italian is Terra di mezzo *g*).

[lickerish.livejournal.com]

Hmm, no I didn't get an email. Not sure what happened. But thanks so much for getting that taken care of. Do you have a total amount for product and shipping? I will paypal you as soon as I get it.

[lotus79.livejournal.com]

Ack. That's pretty lose-lose all around.

Reminds me a bit of the media circus with those two guys got booted off our Big Brother for turkey-slapping a female housemate. All parties there got crucified in the court of public opinion, too.

[fangirl101.livejournal.com]

Strangely (or not) I find rape worse than murder. Because in rare or extreme cases, murder is justifiable, whereas I can see no way that rape could be.

[canadian-kazz.livejournal.com]

I feel bad for the artists she mentioned because if they are innocent, then their PR is all blown to pot now. Shame. And this whole thing is going to take *forever* to blow over. I give you an e-flower, misscam.

@--}--

[misscam.livejournal.com]

They change names too? What fun. Norway's easy, almost all our parties are old and traditional and you know where they're at. Except the Progress Party, who sails with the wind and you can thusly crash into them at the most suprising places.

They still blow.

I shall keep an eye out for those books, yes. And hope French stops with the arsekicking. It makes for sore bums.

[misscam.livejournal.com]

Bottle was 32, postage was... either 55 or 75, I seem to recall. I wrote it down somewhere, so I'll get the exact amount.

Customs might poke into it, so no idea when it will arrive, really. You'll see it when you see it, obviously.

Is possibly my work filter ate my e-mail. It does that sometimes.

[misscam.livejournal.com]

Yeah, but a human can get over a rape and have a decent life after, even if it takes a while. If you're dead, you've lost all options.

[fangirl101.livejournal.com]

You've definitely got me there.
But I find the crime more brutal. Rape is about power, domination, being in control, whereas murder can range from self-protection to psychopaths with a taste for blood.
I believe I could become friends with a person who committeed murder but definitely not if they'd committeed rape.

[thejadefalcon2.livejournal.com]

Exactly. I think that anyone in any big case (e.g. murder or rape) should have their name protected until they are proven guilty. For example, in the recent Suffolk prostitute murders (the guy pretending to be Jack the Ripper), two suspects were named. One (or both) of them is innocent. Yet that man will have his name tarnished forever.

Craig Charles (Robot Wars host and Lister in Red Dwarf) was accused of rape a few years back. He was proven innocent, but he was out of a job for almost a year and the woman was never named. That seem fair to you?

I've asked a lot of women about this and a lot of them seem to prefer death over rape. To be honest, I can sort of see their point of view.

[misscam.livejournal.com]

I've asked a lot of women about this and a lot of them seem to prefer death over rape. To be honest, I can sort of see their point of view.

So can I, having experienced one of the two options. There are definitely moments after where you do feel it would've been better to die. But... Well, we don't know what happens after death, and alive you can still make something of life. So I know which I would choose, if the choice made to be made.

[thejadefalcon2.livejournal.com]

I'm sorry. Was he ever caught or sent to jail? Rape is the lowest thing any man could possibly do, in my opinion. And I think that people who say 'She asked for it by wearing those clothes/drinking etc' should either be shot or raped themselves so they know what it feels like.

I am almost physically sick of fanfiction where a woman is raped, yet starts to enjoy it. That's the whole problem with rape. Someone is forcing themselves on you. You don't enjoy something like that.