Oh deary me

[misscam]

My, my. (You have to be a member of tennant_love to see, but membership is open.) Seems my 'letter to Doctor Who fanfic writers' got some attention, oh yes.

So...

[Poll #658180]

That was certainly an interesting thing to wake up to, oh yes. *is amused*

Comments

[msgenevieve.livejournal.com]

My my indeed. That's quite a special little link you've posted there. Surely that's something that should have gone in the OP's own LJ?

[misscam.livejournal.com]

The part about 'no flaming on the comm', that's fair enough. But she certainly didn't need to link to my letter to make that post - so that bit does seem more fitting for a rant in one's personal LJ, yeah.

IMO, of course.

[lotus79.livejournal.com]

Perhaps. But then she wouldn't get to throw her weight around on her own community in the hopes that people would flame misscam in support of her. Way to prevent flames, indeed.

[doona-rose.livejournal.com]

After purposely avoiding that post all day – yes, being out of the house helped – I’ve come home and read the whole thing. I by no means saw your original post as a flame; how could it be when no specific fic was ever named. I think a lot of people have over-reacted to what was simply a bit of humor, a bit of ranting and a lot of commonsense. I still don’t disagree with any of it nor do I disagree with hobbit_hunter’s policy on no flaming.

I do, however, think you’re very brave for posting it and for then defending yourself over at tennant_love. Not that you need to, you’ve got quite the support group. Not to mention three co-mods defending you. If anything this is simply a case of miscommunication partially due to the fuzziness of the line between constructive criticism and flaming.

[misscam.livejournal.com]

Hey, I'm all for the non-flaming policy. I just think she could've made that announcement without mentioning me or directly link to that letter. The implication of putting that on top of a rant about flames, whether intended or not, did rather seem to be that I was flaming.

And thanks. The discussion over there did get rather interesting actually, though that was perhaps not the most ideal way to get it started. Ah well. Such is fandom.

[hadria.livejournal.com]

Oh Cam, I'm so proud of you for inciting a little bit of wank! I think it needs a little bit more spazz myself to make it to f_w, but one can hope. Though I don't think you actually did anything mean here, the not singling out any fics specifically is a dead giveaway and kind of the end of the entire discussion, IMO.

You really should do a CSI one, just so I can participate in the outrage in some manner. WAT DO U MEEN CAT DUZNT TOUCH NICKZ PEEPEE ON TEH SHOW LOLZOLZ???11 y r u so mean cam lolzz dunt b so meen u flammer1 - luv, babydollcakes

[misscam.livejournal.com]

I should've thrown a major tantrum - that would've gotten me on f-w :P OMG U KALLED MI MEAAAANNNNN!!111111

Blah.

And indeed, it's not like I went "And people who have committed these crimes are..." Heck, I've done o or two of those things myself. Just like I'll probably have done things on my CSI rant to come.

And that's a yes, I shall do one.

[colorstoobright.livejournal.com]

Can I say that I second the CSI rantage? Because I totally do.

[falena]

*has joined the comm and read the whole thread just for the fun of it*

Whoa. Looks like someone took your rant (which was posted in your own LJ and was not directed to someone in particular, as far as I can tell) a little too personally. Fun, fun, fun.

Or maybe not.

Anyway, you should have seen it coming, you evil fandom-partypooper. ;)

[misscam.livejournal.com]

It was directed at everyone and no one. Heck, I didn't even promote it outside my LJ, who_daily picked it up on their own. In my LJ, there will always be snark and silliness rants about fanfic.

Anyway, you should have seen it coming, you evil fandom-partypooper. ;)

It's not my fault I have to sleep! *weeps bitter tears* I couldn't see it coming, I was dreaming odd dreams!

[shandydann]

Reading what they have written and speaking as a Brit, it is only common courtesy to read up about the fandom before posting dross and getting locations wrong.

Fans going it's too much to expect the newbies to do that is a diservice to the fandom. Dr Who has been around for a long time and we are very attached to it. You're still fairly new, but you made the effort. It's also not just about the fandom though, it's about the country the fandom is set in.

Fans who don't do the research or even research the country it's mostly set in aren't what I'd call true fans, I call them dabblers who so not care one bit for the fandom.

I would call myself a dabbler as I like many fandoms, but I did do the additional research for it, for entertainment (and because I like shiny fandoms).

I mean if you travel to a country you do as much research as you can don't you? Well its the same for any fandom that you write in. Or am I just being niave?

[misscam.livejournal.com]

*shrugs* I've always been in fandoms where I had to research, so it's become pretty much a habit. If you are used to being in fandom set in familiar settings you don't have to research, it might take a period to adjust.

That said, research is gold. RESEARCH RESEARCH RESEARCH. When good research is done, you hardly notice it, when it isn't... You sure as heck do. And it can distract from the fic. Not good.

[evilstorm.livejournal.com]

Just to add my tuppence about the research thing--if you're too lazy to research relevant info, don't write in that fandom. Everybody gets to be happy that way.

[dune-drd.livejournal.com]

Oooh, I knew that it would mean discussions as soon as I saw your letter *g*

I'm sure everything you say is totally correct, and it's certainly true that the things you posted I don't want to EVER read in a fic (well, lets say I hit the 'close-OMG-close-already!!' button as soon as I see it) but I can also see that it's a very intimidating letter itself.

I can only speak for myself, for me it raises a certain note of nervousness when writing a fic as a newbie, like "Am I doing this right? Will I get flamed for this crap?" it's not a bad thing, I admit, as you try even harder, but I was kinda relieved to see hobbit_hunter's reply, too.

Does this post even make sense? I still believe you're fluffy and nice :)

I'm sure noone wanted to flame anyone. Can't we just all hug and be friends again? *sniff*

[misscam.livejournal.com]

But see, I didn't post it at any comm. I didn't promote it anywhere, I just posted in my own LJ, where I also write letters to the world, tell Phelps to go STFU and generally, have a certain tone, you know?

However, it's a valid point to raise and I know I can be slightly scary when in ranting mode, though I think most people who've talked to me one on one for any length will tell you I tend to be rather friendly. I guess I blow off most the steam here. But anyway, if that point had been raised in my LJ, along with the others that were, it might've started a lovely discussion on how to best deal with newbie mistakes, how much tone matters, etc. Or even in her own LJ, where she can rant about whatever she likes. But sticking it in with a mod post about flaming the way it was - didn't exactly have the best results, eh?

And anyway, I am a newbie in this fandom. I've barely dipped my toes in!

But ah well.

Can't we just all hug and be friends again? *sniff*

I don't know. Will there be chocolate?

[norwegianne.livejournal.com]

Not being involved in Dr. Who at all - it makes me slightly amused to see how it seems to be assumed that you are British, and talking down to the stupid Americans in your rant.

As United Kingdom and Norway are one and the same... we never have to do any research when writing in British fandoms. Nope. Not Norwegians.

[misscam.livejournal.com]

All of Europe is the same, haven't you heard?

*shakes head* Though this is not the first time people have assumed I'm British. Do I give out British vibes, or something? Should I wave my Norwegian icons around more?

And yeah, I pretty much have to research regardless of what fandom I'm in. That's how it is when you come from a tiny country and the number of things to fangirl are just smaller.

[childofares.livejournal.com]

I may be wrong but I'm rather offended on your behalf. What part of your letter was a flame? In any way? Do you know the OP in any way? The whole linking your journal seems a little uncalled for in regards to the rest of the post. Oversensitive much? People need to lighten up I think.

[misscam.livejournal.com]

I vaguely know the OP. I've chatted with her on ocassion. Wouldn't say I know her too well though - might be part of the problem, I suppose, her thinking maybe I was targeting her with that rant or something.

[aervir.livejournal.com]

Oooh, Doctor Who wank! Well. it's rather wee and ickle and tiny and so won't make it to f_w, but still, you have to take what you can get.

*is easily amused*

No, joking aside, I'd already seen the post on tennant_love last night (when it wasn't f-locked yet, but I've now joined anyway for the Ten!squee :D) and was seriously considering to point it out to you. But then I thought you'd discover it on your own; and you're more than capable of dealing with that sort of thing anyway.

I mean I can understand why hobbit_hunter wants to speak out against flaming and bashing in their comm, but your open letter wasn't really a flame at all. First of all, it wasn't directed against anyone in particular; it was rather ironic in tone; and it was posted on your journal.

If one can no longer say what one thinks, rant and snark on one's own blog, well, where else should one do it then?

[misscam.livejournal.com]

You've come around to Ten? Excellent.

and you're more than capable of dealing with that sort of thing anyway.

:) Thanks for the vote of confidence. Though since I was snoozing at the time, nice to see people held my fort, so to speak. Chocolate and beer and love all around, yes.

*pets own LJ* I shall never stop ranting and snarking on this one. It's like the Cam's Rant Corner of the world. Now in shiny Doctor Who paint.

[speshulduck.livejournal.com]

Don't even get me started. I could have been the first person to respond to it, but I walked away for about an hour to cool down first. Just...grr.

[misscam.livejournal.com]

You sound like you need some akevitt, you do. *pats*

Thanks for sticking up for me and all, though. I was wondering if I was gonna get the ban-hammer if I tried to defend myself or something when I first saw just the post, I must admit. Quite some WTFery. But that quickly changed.

But such is fandom. There's always some WTFery going on.

[jocelyncs.livejournal.com]

Oh, for the love of Pete! Those "fandom must be full of fluffy bunny rabbits and nobody ever sad" people need to grow the hell up!

You made a damn good set of points and I'm not even a Doctor Who fan!

(This is where you try to kill me, right?) ;-)

[misscam.livejournal.com]

I don't know, would you like me to? :P

*makes note to seduce you to DW*

[wendymr.livejournal.com]

*turns on computer*
*reads flist*
*joins tennant_love*
*reads rant*
*falls over in disbelief*

What part of your original post did she not understand? Ranting about examples of stupid, ludicrous premises, characterisation and errors which could be avoided by the most basic research is not flaming. She wants flames, she should go to some other fandoms. Or Usenet.

Some of it, though, does make me almost feel it's a little bit of reversal here. Like a number of other non-American DW writers, I wrote for years in an American fandom. And I'd get occasional comments on my stories which didn't mention the story at all, but would just point out that to Americans the pavement is the road. Some Americans can get very pissy about non-Americans writing about Americans. Some snark and bitch incredibly nastily - next to them, Cam's letter looks like she's sending hugs all around to everyone.

Keep it up, Cam - you know we appreciate it, and it looks like the majority of posters on that thread do as well. :)

[lotus79.livejournal.com]

Read your reply over there, and WORD.

BTW, I think you'll find the person you're thinking of who got antsy when she was corrected on a Cardiff/London error was in fact probably hobbit_hunter. So that should explain a few things. ;)

[velocityofsound.livejournal.com]

Mmmm, I love the taste of hypocrisy in the morning. Lovely for this one to preach tolerance while not-so-subtly getting her bashing in.

I think you have a case of rather lame dog fighting for the fandom's tiara on your hands. It's rather lame, considering that she's trying to use a populist stance and cast you as an elitist, which is just absolutely the wrong way to go about it, logically.

[misscam.livejournal.com]

I wasn't aware I even wanted a tiara. The hair gets stuck, it's so inconvinient. Give me a nice soft furcap (fake fur, of course) for winter and a scarf, and I am a happy little Norwegian.

[nymeria.livejournal.com]

I - buh.

What? Good lord, given how pissy I can get over stupid things like Brits celebrating Thanksgiving, your rant was positively fluffy. O.o

[scarlettgirl.livejournal.com]

Mmmm...

::smacks lips::

A little wank is just divine with coffee.

I'm thinking that didn't go quite the way she had planned. ;-)

You're such a mean girl. What with all the requests for accuracy and spelling and OMG RESEARCH!

Damn you! Damn you to hell!

::falls over laughing::

[boz4pm.livejournal.com]

(posted without reading the 90 something comments you've had so far, so forgive me if this repeats what others have said, and it probably does)

O_o Um... quoting your 'points that make fic crappy' and then taking about flaming? What is the connection? You weren't talking about flaming, nor encouraging flaming. I can't imagine for ONE second you're the kind of person who flames. Indeed, I know you're not. Con crit, yes; flames, nu-unh.

Then all the comments in response about 'yeah, flames suck'.

Well, yes. They do. Flames are a pointless exercise in getting your point across. And this has WHAT, precisely, to do with what you (miss cam) orginally posted?

I love the 'edit' too, to 'explain' that the post was meant to be about flames and your list of 'regular annoyances in Who-vian badfic' was used as a merely 'jumping off point'. Er... logic implosion anyone?

*head desks*

[dark-aegis.livejournal.com]

Like wendymr I joined tennant_love just to see what the fuss was about. I want to know how the heck a post about how common mistakes in fanfic turns into a flaming thread? I don't get it. Then again, I do recall hobbit_hunter had written a fic that made the Cardiff=London mistake and got a little, well, aggravated at the comments she received about how that was wrong. Who knows. It's one of those little mysteries in life.

[scattergraph.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure that I want to know how the Welsh half of my family would react to the Cardiff = London mistake. Especially my grandmother. Yikes.

Perhaps hobbit_hunter made one of the mistakes in your rant and felt targeted for some reason? Otherwise, the reaction is confusing.

[juliejordan.livejournal.com]

I'm really late, this wank is already long over but I wanted to add my 2p anyway.

Personally, I think hobbit_hunter was out of line linking to your rant. Yes, when I read it I got a bit paranoid and starting thinking Gee, I hope it isn't any of MY fics she's talking or thinking about but you know, you posted it in YOUR OWN JOURNAL. And in your journal, you can say whatever you like. You could flame my fics to hell, and it would be your right because your journal is your space where you should be allowed to speak without fear or censorship.

I think hobbit_hunter meant well with her rant, but linking to a letter that was in someone's private journal was wrong of her to do. If you had posted the letter to a comm then I'd understand it, but you didn't so she had no right to use you as an example. If someone had done that to me I think I'd be really angry about it, but then I'm a tempermental bitch with a tendence to over-react and speak before I think anyhow.

And you know what, I agree with most, if not all, of what you wrote in that letter anyway. And some people really need to use their brains and see the difference between ConCrit and a Flame. Because usually it's fairly easy to tell anyway. I hate comms/boards that have a No Negative Comments type rule. So long as it's constructive and not snarky/flamey I think concrit should be allowed. Otherwise how are writers ever going to improve? I mean, I'm pretty sensitive but even I can handle getting concrit or people disagreeing with what I write. It's just NOT the end of the world if not every single person loves your fics and people need to start realising this, as well as learning how to listen to concrit and opening their own eyes to what is a flame and what isn't. Banning any type of negative comments just doesn't help anyone.

Just my opinion. :-)

[misscam.livejournal.com]

*shrugs* I'd rather be amused than angry. And every point on that list I've spotted in more than a few fanfics, so it wasn't targetted at any one fic. Heck, I broke some of those myself - some of those points can be broken beautifully for effect, it's just the excess of it that gets a bit overwhelming and all.

I quite hear you on the concrit too. It is helpful most of the time, even if it may sometimes be a slightly wound to the ego.