Serious Ponderings, Not So Serious Meme

[misscam]

More on Even, the Norwegian who addressed the crowds in Syria

I've been thinking about this cartoon row, trying to come to a conclusion in my muddled brain. I've been going a bit back and forth on it, I must admit, looking at the different angles, trying not to get bogged down by the outrage I feel at my country being targetted, and some fear going with it. And it seems to be to be several issues all joined together, which might be part of the reason I feel conflicted.

I am a citizen of Norway, of the West, and I've grown up thinking freedom of speech essential. It is part of the society I value. However, freedom of speech is not unconditional. There is always some things you cannot say without reprecusions. Incitement of hatred is not allowed in my country. In Germany, you cannot deny the holocaust. There are limitations, because words have power, and certain words can hurt society.

On the other hand - silence can also hurt society. Stifle speech too much and a country might be lead astray. It has happened in the past. It will surely happen again. So, you attempt a very delicate balance, knowing that tehre will be falls and bruises along the way.

That's one issue.

Then there's another. Christianity gets no free pass in the Western press. It gets mocked and satirized. Should the playing field be level? I believe so, but I am an atheist, and to me, no religion is particulary more precious or particulary more evil. And various Arab media have printed cartoons depicting Jews or Christians that are at least as offensive as what was printed in the Danish paper. (One such I saw had a Jew portrayed much like in the Nazi propaganda, drinking the blood of killed children.) Should not respect go both ways?

Of course, there are elements within Western society interested in demonizing Islam, and there are elements within Islam interested in demonizing the West. Perhaps to distract for problems within own culture. This must be a wrapped gift to both. And after 9/11, there has undoubtedly been a certain branding of muslims. Should we therefore, in these troubled times, be a little more careful how the West deals with Islam?

And is this really about the cartoons? Or are they just an excuse - convinient and easy to rally behind when the issue is much deeper?

I don't know what to think all in all.

What I do know - what I believe - is that violence is not okay. Regardless of insult. And that there is at core here a certain misunderstanding. The protests against the cartoons have targetted the countries - Norway's embassy, several of Denmark's embassies - but the cartoons were not the expressions of either government. But because in many of the countries where these protests have been, the media is tightly controlled, the governments have been branded the culprits. And it seems to be that to combat the demon images on both sides, we need to talk to each other. We need, perhaps, more Evens.

And maybe even Cam's muddled mind will find some conclusion in the end.

Now, enough of such complicated things.

Found via wiccagirl24 - Daleks at MySpace!

Snow madness in Norway - again

Veronica Mars wank

Mpreg in Who fandom? Oi.

Have a bunch of new people on my flist, so thought I'd ressurct an old, old meme. Ask me four questions, any questions. I will answer them to the best of my ability. Then you may post this in your LJ and see what I would ask you.

Comments

[kateorman.livejournal.com]

I admire hell out of that kid's guts and smarts. He gave them all they needed - an apology and some hope. It's hard for us to understand why they're so outraged, and hard for them to understand why the West would deliver such an insult, and he simply pointed that out.

[misscam.livejournal.com]

Yes. I wish the world had more people like that. Sometimes, words really do help.

[harmonyfb.livejournal.com]

1. If you had the option to summon the TARDIS, which Doctor and companion(s) would you choose to travel with?

2. What is your fic kink? (In other words, what situation/plot/scenario will cause you read any fic, anywhere, anytime?)

3. What's the most exotic place you've ever been?

4. Your favorite smell.

[misscam.livejournal.com]

1. Oh, I only really know Nine and Ten and Rose, and not Ten too well yet, so Nine and Rose it would rather be by default.

2. Hum. Not sure there is any such thing. I guess the closest would be that I will read any fanfic involving Norway, often to see if the author has got it right.

3. Uluru, probably.

4. Lavender.

[briasoleil.livejournal.com]

Stupid lj lost my reply. Suffice it to say that I reiterated much what I said before. Islam and Muslims under attack on many levels. Violence is not to be condoned.

The thing I want to add is this: it would appear that Islamophobia has been given a free pass. And in countries that I thought better of.

[lotus79.livejournal.com]

1. What do you think is the single worst fanfic you've ever read/heard of?

2. What do you think is the worst offence a badfic can commit? (geez, can you tell what's on my mind, or what?)

3. How is your flu?

4. When are you going to write me some more smut?

:P

[misscam.livejournal.com]

1. Oi, choices, choices. ChibiUsa's 7th birthday, I think.

2. Have one part of the OTP rape the other and have that be what makes the other realise how much she wanted it after all.

3. Blah.

4. When I feel like it, nagger.

[lotus79.livejournal.com]

1. I had to ask. I had forgotten that one. You're right, hands down worst.

2. *totally agrees*

3. *pats*

4. Do ya feel like it yet? Do ya? *nags* :P

[sinneahtes.livejournal.com]

And is this really about the cartoons? Or are they just an excuse - convinient and easy to rally behind when the issue is much deeper?

I've been stuttering (however obviously) in my "It's JUST a cartoon!" responses because of this question--something just struck me as it looking like this was more a "straw that broke the camel's back" (or at least made it sore enough to want to rebel) scenario than it "just" being about a cartoon. And/or were there a few people around with agendas who just noted the cartoons and took advantage of the outrage, and pushed to drive things from anger to this?

Questions:

1. What's your favorite kind of fruit?

2. If you found the equivalent of a $10 bill (whatever country you're in at the time) lying on the sidewalk, no one else in sight, what would you do with it?

3. Would you say you're an introvert or extrovert (as compared to other people in your culture and not, say, you as a Norwegian compared to a "typical" American--if that makes sense)?

4. Um... what's your favorite sort of office supply?

[misscam.livejournal.com]

1. A banana.

2. I would take it. I'd buy myself a chocolate and stick the rest in the Salvation Army tin.

3. Tricky one. I think I am both, really, in phases.

4. A paper-clip. A Norwegian invented it, you know.

[aervir.livejournal.com]

I think you have just summed up most of my feelings perfectly in your post. What a terrible mess this whole sordid affair is. One can only hope that the voices of reason on both sides are not completely drowned by all the clamour.

[belegcuthalion.livejournal.com]

Should not respect go both ways?

It should, of course. I had a very heated discussion these days with someone who wanted to convince me that the Koran is a piece of garbage compared to the bible, because the man who wrote it took stuff from judaism and christianity and added his own icing to found a new religion. The only answer I had was that you will never earn the respect of anyone if you go and tell him that everything he believes since his childhood is garbage.

And I'm rather concerned about the way the press reports all those incidents. I know that muslim imams tried to stop the riot in Beirut by talking to the men and holding them back (which was a good and honorable attempt even though they failed). But I only saw one single report about this incident. And the General Counsel of Muslims in Germany condemned the burnings and violent excess, saying with great clarity that muslims in Germany are "concerned and horrified" by the events. But only a few radio stations found this worth to be reported, the TV news (whatever station it was) completely "forgot" to tell the german public that their turkish or arabian neighbors most likely have other ideas that to plan the next djihâd. Why? Because violent muslims "sell" far better these days?

May heaven (and honesty among journalists) prevent us from american conditions!

[evilstorm.livejournal.com]

I think I've just figured out the cartoon dilemma. Should we be mocking Islam? No. Free speech, yeah, but if it offends Muslims who haven't done anything to deserve it then no. And also cos, yeah, cartoons have been used before by those in power to incite conflict in the ranks downbelow, and y'know I'd rather not see religious wars well and truly break out. You don't mock a religion for the sake of mocking a religion, you mock it cos it's being unreasonable and stupid. So should we be mocking Islamofascism/fundamentalism? Hell yes. Because mockery takes away some of its power, because mockery helps people realize that they're not infallible. Mockery weakens their hold. So, well, fuck yeah.

Of course, this brings up the problem of ulterior motives in posting anything about Islam at all whilst turning a blind eye to Christian fundies (*shakes fist*), but. I think that this is the baseline to work with, and that Christianity's idiosyncrasies should be dealt with in the same fashion.

Of course, it would be easier if people simply weren't stupid enough to blow each other up over trivial things like this, but that's people for you. Homo sapiens sapiens, stupidest damn species on the whole goddamn planet.

[huinesoron.livejournal.com]

Homo sapiens sapiens, I hereby rename you Pan ú-sapiens, the Stupid Chimp. You don't even get the right to a proper latin translation, because I can't speak Latin be bothered, so you have to put up with a mixed-up Quenya/Latin hybrid.

-- anyone know the Latin prefix for 'not'? Do they even /have/ one?

[mystefaction.livejournal.com]

They have 'in-', if you can make that work.

[huinesoron.livejournal.com]

Pan insapiens? Yeah, that sorta works. Thanks.

[evilstorm.livejournal.com]

"In-"? "Non-"? "Dis-"? "A-"? *shrugs* I don't speak Latin, either. And I probably struck a Greek prefix by accident, cos I'm totally guessing at random. Heh.

[evilstorm.livejournal.com]

...Yeah, and I just remembered the mpreg, oy fucking vey. *reaches for Bleeprin*

[losseniaiel.livejournal.com]

Mpreg in Who fandom? Oi.

Please tell me that that's a troll. *weeps*