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misscamKnow what drives me bonkers in fandoms sometimes?
The lack of middleground. Okay, so some people hate Rose and some people really, really love Rose and watching them argue gives me an urge for tea and sometimes make me feel like you have to be either or. I like Rose. I don't think she's the BESTEST ever and we should all love upon her for everything, nor do I think she ruined the show or stole the Doctor. I like her. I like her because she's human and sometimes she makes the Doctor appear a little human and sometimes she makes him look very alien. I like her because she's young and enthusiastic and have parts I can relate to without being in any way exactly like me. I don't always like what she does or what the show does with her, but I can live with that.
Same thing with CSI. I like Catherine and I like Sara and if I go to certain places it's all about how Catherine is all horrid and Sara all great and if I go other places it's the opposite. I see it in 'ships in CSI fandom as well - if you like one ship, bashing of another seems to come with the territory. And it makes me uncomfortable. It seems to be to define very clear fault lines between various groups in fandom and crossing them involves a lot of sharp rocks.
I like middleground. I like it because it allows me to meet a lot of different people and have discussions that don't end up being one side bashing and the other defending, and change the subject and the roles reverse. I like it because it gives me ideas for different fanfics, maybe exploring the ways Rose isn't perfect one day and why the Doctor isn't another, writing a story where Sara isn't everything to Grissom and showing why he might need Catherine one morning, and considering why Catherine might not fancy Grissom in the evening.
I like middleground because sometimes, I'm not fully on board with either side and don't want to be, because they both make me uncomfortable. I like middleground because I don't need to hate or dislike something to like another thing. I like middleground because I hate feeling like this is competition or a war.
Okay, so sometimes we genuinely dislike stuff and get passionate about it and it can be good to let out steam. I do that myself and often passionately. But when it becomes a Bush-idea of "either you're with us or you're against us", I balk. I might be with you today. But if you do something bloody stupid tomorrow, I reserve the right to think so and not mindlessly back you up. I might be with you on that the media gets a bit annoying in selling "Rose is the prefect companion, OMG!" at times, but that doesn't mean I'm prepared to bash her and then get upset when people bash Ten as if I can't see those two are the same side of the coin. Same goes for delighting in Jackie-bashing and then get all upset if someone utters even one uncomplimentary word against Rose. I might decide that I do agree with you that the "Sara still pines after Grissom!" is getting a bit old, but that doesn't mean I'm gonna start calling her several repulsive sex-related names. In fact, why not kill those words from descriptions of female characters you don't like all together, hmm?
And quite frankly, I don't want you to make me feel almost ashamed for the opinions I have today and then fall at my feet for another opinion next week. When we disagree, I want it to be a disagreement, not emotional blackmail on either side and with "aha, so you're with them!" Maybe I'm just with me, thank you very much.
And while we're at it, when Fan A really doens't like Fan B and Fan B returns the sentiment, I don't have to feel like I have to choose. Maybe I like both. Maybe I find Fan A amusing and really enjoy the writing of Fan B. Maybe I get inspired with Fan B and snarky with Fan A and maybe I want both to be my friends. And maybe I hate you both a little in equal measure when you make me feel guilty for that. I am not your prize. I'm not your field of combat.
I like the middleground. It keeps me from feeling like I must define myself by one category, and then that's it, for better or worse. Humans tend to be so very fond of categories, maybe because of how our brain works - 'shippers, non-shippers, GSRers, YoBlingers, slashers, Nine-lovers, Ten-lovers, old schoolers, new schoolers, Sara-haters, friends of Fan A. Slap a label on us and expect us to act accordingly.
No. I don't want to play by that. The middleground is nice and grassy and keeps me from going to extremes. I don't want to have my opinions defined in advance by how I ship or when I started watching Doctor Who. I don't want to feel ashamed by the behaviour from others in "my category", and feel like I have no choice but to let it pass. I don't want middleground to be no man's land, where we can only meet in the dark of night and go back to our trenches in the morning. I really don't want to play by that, even though I probably can't help myself sometimes (and thus deserves a smacking). Humans will be humans, but that isn't a getting out of jail free card here.
I, to put it simply, would like to be able to be me, Camilla of many varying opinions and likes, being able to interact with others of the same without having our behaviour dictated in advance. I want to be able to frolic in the middleground, and I want it bad.
Please not be shooting on me from your trenches, fandom? Me no like pain. Why not frolic with me instead? The grass smells like apples.
ETA: Some rephrasing and little add-ons.
The lack of middleground. Okay, so some people hate Rose and some people really, really love Rose and watching them argue gives me an urge for tea and sometimes make me feel like you have to be either or. I like Rose. I don't think she's the BESTEST ever and we should all love upon her for everything, nor do I think she ruined the show or stole the Doctor. I like her. I like her because she's human and sometimes she makes the Doctor appear a little human and sometimes she makes him look very alien. I like her because she's young and enthusiastic and have parts I can relate to without being in any way exactly like me. I don't always like what she does or what the show does with her, but I can live with that.
Same thing with CSI. I like Catherine and I like Sara and if I go to certain places it's all about how Catherine is all horrid and Sara all great and if I go other places it's the opposite. I see it in 'ships in CSI fandom as well - if you like one ship, bashing of another seems to come with the territory. And it makes me uncomfortable. It seems to be to define very clear fault lines between various groups in fandom and crossing them involves a lot of sharp rocks.
I like middleground. I like it because it allows me to meet a lot of different people and have discussions that don't end up being one side bashing and the other defending, and change the subject and the roles reverse. I like it because it gives me ideas for different fanfics, maybe exploring the ways Rose isn't perfect one day and why the Doctor isn't another, writing a story where Sara isn't everything to Grissom and showing why he might need Catherine one morning, and considering why Catherine might not fancy Grissom in the evening.
I like middleground because sometimes, I'm not fully on board with either side and don't want to be, because they both make me uncomfortable. I like middleground because I don't need to hate or dislike something to like another thing. I like middleground because I hate feeling like this is competition or a war.
Okay, so sometimes we genuinely dislike stuff and get passionate about it and it can be good to let out steam. I do that myself and often passionately. But when it becomes a Bush-idea of "either you're with us or you're against us", I balk. I might be with you today. But if you do something bloody stupid tomorrow, I reserve the right to think so and not mindlessly back you up. I might be with you on that the media gets a bit annoying in selling "Rose is the prefect companion, OMG!" at times, but that doesn't mean I'm prepared to bash her and then get upset when people bash Ten as if I can't see those two are the same side of the coin. Same goes for delighting in Jackie-bashing and then get all upset if someone utters even one uncomplimentary word against Rose. I might decide that I do agree with you that the "Sara still pines after Grissom!" is getting a bit old, but that doesn't mean I'm gonna start calling her several repulsive sex-related names. In fact, why not kill those words from descriptions of female characters you don't like all together, hmm?
And quite frankly, I don't want you to make me feel almost ashamed for the opinions I have today and then fall at my feet for another opinion next week. When we disagree, I want it to be a disagreement, not emotional blackmail on either side and with "aha, so you're with them!" Maybe I'm just with me, thank you very much.
And while we're at it, when Fan A really doens't like Fan B and Fan B returns the sentiment, I don't have to feel like I have to choose. Maybe I like both. Maybe I find Fan A amusing and really enjoy the writing of Fan B. Maybe I get inspired with Fan B and snarky with Fan A and maybe I want both to be my friends. And maybe I hate you both a little in equal measure when you make me feel guilty for that. I am not your prize. I'm not your field of combat.
I like the middleground. It keeps me from feeling like I must define myself by one category, and then that's it, for better or worse. Humans tend to be so very fond of categories, maybe because of how our brain works - 'shippers, non-shippers, GSRers, YoBlingers, slashers, Nine-lovers, Ten-lovers, old schoolers, new schoolers, Sara-haters, friends of Fan A. Slap a label on us and expect us to act accordingly.
No. I don't want to play by that. The middleground is nice and grassy and keeps me from going to extremes. I don't want to have my opinions defined in advance by how I ship or when I started watching Doctor Who. I don't want to feel ashamed by the behaviour from others in "my category", and feel like I have no choice but to let it pass. I don't want middleground to be no man's land, where we can only meet in the dark of night and go back to our trenches in the morning. I really don't want to play by that, even though I probably can't help myself sometimes (and thus deserves a smacking). Humans will be humans, but that isn't a getting out of jail free card here.
I, to put it simply, would like to be able to be me, Camilla of many varying opinions and likes, being able to interact with others of the same without having our behaviour dictated in advance. I want to be able to frolic in the middleground, and I want it bad.
Please not be shooting on me from your trenches, fandom? Me no like pain. Why not frolic with me instead? The grass smells like apples.
ETA: Some rephrasing and little add-ons.
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no subject
Date: 2006-04-04 12:38 am (UTC)Hear, hear. Nothing further to add, except I agree with every word contained herein.
(Well, except for the CSI stuff since, not ever having watched CSI, I can't know if I agree or not *grin*)
no subject
Date: 2006-04-04 12:46 am (UTC)Bush didn't come up with it... Jesus did.Did you know you're famous? Random fans of random fandoms everywhere know of the Camilla Sandman. 'Tis funny.
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Date: 2006-04-04 12:46 am (UTC)You're fantabulously intelligent and make a lot of sense. I agree with the middleground being lovely.
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Date: 2006-04-04 12:53 am (UTC)I love that middle ground. Sofia, Catherine, Sara, and Kate from Lost all have their flaws but none of them deserve the OMG hate they've gotten from various places.
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Date: 2006-04-04 01:05 am (UTC)Credit goes to
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Date: 2006-04-04 01:07 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-04-04 01:12 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-04-04 01:18 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-04-04 01:20 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-04-04 01:21 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-04-04 01:21 am (UTC)In regards to middleground in fandom, I think the anonymity of the internet exaserbates the situation. In real life, how many of us would insult each other's work or hobbies so blantantly in their face? The internet allows us a certain allowance for that behavoir because most of us don't know each other personally and don't have to actually deal with each other unless we want to.
I find another thing that makes the middleground harder to settle into is when BNF's come into play. Generally, it's their fans that start the middleground warfare once a BNF is created. You either have to love this fan or hate their guts, sekretly posting friends enteries saying "OMGINSERTBNFHERESUCKS". All of sudden, fandom is split down the middle with the people who just don't care stomping off. The rest battle it out for supremacy of pairing, favorite character, best episode, coolest icon maker, and color of main character's boxer briefs. Sometimes it's one section of fandom, sometimes it's the whole thing.
And god forbid the gen fans or shippers say anything mean about the slashers. Talk about a Holy War.
I hate being forced to choose sides, in fandom or otherwise and most of the time, just refuse to. It's difficult, though probably not as difficult in the SGA fandom (where I've mostly been until Who) as we're much more spread out across different fandoms and about a quarter to a half of us aren't gungho scifi fans, they've just been roped into the SGA fun by their friends or the characters.
I also hate having to worry about how people will take things if I mention I don't like something or disliked this character then or now or whenever I want to. I'm allowed to be flighty, indecisive, or menstrual, THANK YOU.
:frolics in the apple smelling grass:
no subject
Date: 2006-04-04 01:22 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-04-04 01:23 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-04-04 01:23 am (UTC)Daleks would totally kick the asses of annoying people. Yes.
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Date: 2006-04-04 01:24 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-04-04 01:25 am (UTC)I like Rose well enough. She's not my favorite companion (that would be Ace or Liz or Joe - and I quite like Harry, too), but she's not my least favorite (that would be Adric).
Likewise, this Doctor isn't my favorite (Five) or my least favorite (Six).
Note, though, how I couch it in terms not of 'best' and 'worst', but in terms of my own opinion. I realize others may or may not share my viewpoint. And the cool thing about this fandom is that after nearly 30 years of being on-air, there's room enough for everybody and a bag of chips, too. :)
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Date: 2006-04-04 01:26 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-04-04 01:27 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-04-04 01:28 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-04-04 01:32 am (UTC)Oh, BNFs... Ask some people and they'll tell you I am one, though. Or was, anyway. And if it taught me one thing, it's that people get so enthusiastically territorial, and really, really want to defend their likes, be it the BNF's fic or opinions or whatever. And hoo boy, that can lead to Bad Things.
Including jumping at people for mentioning how annoyed they were about Rose's hair this ep and OMG!h8r. On the other hand, some will use any excuse to bash and it gets really annoying and people can't tell the two apart sometimes, I think.
It all gives me a headache.
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Date: 2006-04-04 01:42 am (UTC)Ah well. I shall have the tea and biscuits, because tea is bestest of all.
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Date: 2006-04-04 01:42 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-04-04 01:43 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-04-04 01:44 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-04-04 01:45 am (UTC)