Cam Loves on the Middleground of Fandom (CSI and Doctor Who mentions, but fairly general)

[misscam]

Know what drives me bonkers in fandoms sometimes?

The lack of middleground. Okay, so some people hate Rose and some people really, really love Rose and watching them argue gives me an urge for tea and sometimes make me feel like you have to be either or. I like Rose. I don't think she's the BESTEST ever and we should all love upon her for everything, nor do I think she ruined the show or stole the Doctor. I like her. I like her because she's human and sometimes she makes the Doctor appear a little human and sometimes she makes him look very alien. I like her because she's young and enthusiastic and have parts I can relate to without being in any way exactly like me. I don't always like what she does or what the show does with her, but I can live with that.

Same thing with CSI. I like Catherine and I like Sara and if I go to certain places it's all about how Catherine is all horrid and Sara all great and if I go other places it's the opposite. I see it in 'ships in CSI fandom as well - if you like one ship, bashing of another seems to come with the territory. And it makes me uncomfortable. It seems to be to define very clear fault lines between various groups in fandom and crossing them involves a lot of sharp rocks.

I like middleground. I like it because it allows me to meet a lot of different people and have discussions that don't end up being one side bashing and the other defending, and change the subject and the roles reverse. I like it because it gives me ideas for different fanfics, maybe exploring the ways Rose isn't perfect one day and why the Doctor isn't another, writing a story where Sara isn't everything to Grissom and showing why he might need Catherine one morning, and considering why Catherine might not fancy Grissom in the evening.

I like middleground because sometimes, I'm not fully on board with either side and don't want to be, because they both make me uncomfortable. I like middleground because I don't need to hate or dislike something to like another thing. I like middleground because I hate feeling like this is competition or a war.

Okay, so sometimes we genuinely dislike stuff and get passionate about it and it can be good to let out steam. I do that myself and often passionately. But when it becomes a Bush-idea of "either you're with us or you're against us", I balk. I might be with you today. But if you do something bloody stupid tomorrow, I reserve the right to think so and not mindlessly back you up. I might be with you on that the media gets a bit annoying in selling "Rose is the prefect companion, OMG!" at times, but that doesn't mean I'm prepared to bash her and then get upset when people bash Ten as if I can't see those two are the same side of the coin. Same goes for delighting in Jackie-bashing and then get all upset if someone utters even one uncomplimentary word against Rose. I might decide that I do agree with you that the "Sara still pines after Grissom!" is getting a bit old, but that doesn't mean I'm gonna start calling her several repulsive sex-related names. In fact, why not kill those words from descriptions of female characters you don't like all together, hmm?

And quite frankly, I don't want you to make me feel almost ashamed for the opinions I have today and then fall at my feet for another opinion next week. When we disagree, I want it to be a disagreement, not emotional blackmail on either side and with "aha, so you're with them!" Maybe I'm just with me, thank you very much.

And while we're at it, when Fan A really doens't like Fan B and Fan B returns the sentiment, I don't have to feel like I have to choose. Maybe I like both. Maybe I find Fan A amusing and really enjoy the writing of Fan B. Maybe I get inspired with Fan B and snarky with Fan A and maybe I want both to be my friends. And maybe I hate you both a little in equal measure when you make me feel guilty for that. I am not your prize. I'm not your field of combat.

I like the middleground. It keeps me from feeling like I must define myself by one category, and then that's it, for better or worse. Humans tend to be so very fond of categories, maybe because of how our brain works - 'shippers, non-shippers, GSRers, YoBlingers, slashers, Nine-lovers, Ten-lovers, old schoolers, new schoolers, Sara-haters, friends of Fan A. Slap a label on us and expect us to act accordingly.

No. I don't want to play by that. The middleground is nice and grassy and keeps me from going to extremes. I don't want to have my opinions defined in advance by how I ship or when I started watching Doctor Who. I don't want to feel ashamed by the behaviour from others in "my category", and feel like I have no choice but to let it pass. I don't want middleground to be no man's land, where we can only meet in the dark of night and go back to our trenches in the morning. I really don't want to play by that, even though I probably can't help myself sometimes (and thus deserves a smacking). Humans will be humans, but that isn't a getting out of jail free card here.

I, to put it simply, would like to be able to be me, Camilla of many varying opinions and likes, being able to interact with others of the same without having our behaviour dictated in advance. I want to be able to frolic in the middleground, and I want it bad.

Please not be shooting on me from your trenches, fandom? Me no like pain. Why not frolic with me instead? The grass smells like apples.

ETA: Some rephrasing and little add-ons.

Comments

[wendymr.livejournal.com]

I might be with you on that the media gets a bit annoying in selling "Rose is the prefect companion, OMG!" at times, but that doesn't mean I'm prepared to bash her and then get all annoyed at people bashing Ten, as if I can't see those two are the same side of the coin.

Hear, hear. Nothing further to add, except I agree with every word contained herein.

(Well, except for the CSI stuff since, not ever having watched CSI, I can't know if I agree or not *grin*)

[misscam.livejournal.com]

Ah, but fandoms can be oh so very alike in their ways. CSI fandom can be quite like a smaller scale HP one, oh yes.

[vixenmage.livejournal.com]

True. Very, very true.

Bush didn't come up with it... Jesus did.

Did you know you're famous? Random fans of random fandoms everywhere know of the Camilla Sandman. 'Tis funny.

[misscam.livejournal.com]

Heh. Well, the whole OFUM thing seems to have have branded me quite a bit, and wherever I go, someone seems to know it. Small Internet, I guess.

[kittycatness.livejournal.com]

Just so you know:
You're fantabulously intelligent and make a lot of sense. I agree with the middleground being lovely.

[misscam.livejournal.com]

Have some tea, you flatterer ;)

[immoralilly.livejournal.com]

*claps*
I love that middle ground. Sofia, Catherine, Sara, and Kate from Lost all have their flaws but none of them deserve the OMG hate they've gotten from various places.

[misscam.livejournal.com]

Quite agree with you there. It seems when someone passionately loves a character, someone wants to passionately hate it too, as if that somehow makes things even.

[velocityofsound.livejournal.com]

Ana-Lucia on the other hand? ;)

I could add to that list rather easily, and it's pretty much composed of any female lead from a major television series. We simply don't allow for flaws in female characters, but when they're too strong, we balk. And even the darlings of a moment eventually get bashed - CJ Cregg on The West Wing comes to mind, she was universally beloved until stopped being relentlessly charming and ascended the power structure, and then she was blasted as an unrealistic shrew.

But Cam, I can dig a lot of what you're saying. Fandom in its online form seems to absolutely be allergic to rational, flexible opinions and open-mindedness. In fact, mindlessness and blind allegiance seem to be badges of honor. It tends to drive me a bit crazy as well. Especially because I need that just as a baseline, to function above and beyond that in the realms of satire and sarcasm where I like to dwell. It's limiting, and frustrating.

And ugh for feeling put in the middle of two fans. I've never been there in this type of fandom, but I have felt like I put someone in that spot (Unwittingly, because I would never make someone choose between online friends. If two people on my F'list used to date, and hate each other now with a blazing, burning passion, and can still get along enough to both be on my list? I can handle someone I find distasteful playing in my sandbox.) and it's rather shitty.

I look at it like a knitting club, or a sports team. You certainly don't have to like everyone, it isn't a utopia, but throwing elbows is just dirty. And if you're getting beat up every week, maybe it's time for a new hobby. Which sucks, because some of us are stubborn ;)

[cactus-wren.livejournal.com]

I don't really have anything to say about your rant (sorry), but I did find something at userpicks that might cheer you up a bit:



Credit goes to mimisoliel. Do feel a little less aggravated now? *hopes you do*

[cactus-wren.livejournal.com]

ugh. That's 'Do you feel ...'

[drakyndra.livejournal.com]

I think I know what brought this on. And I agree with you muchly (though I have some issues with character bashing if all kinds.)

[misscam.livejournal.com]

Actually, CSI fandom was probably even more so the cause - it's been driving me bonkers of late. But yeah, what you're thinking of is what made me think it was time to word some annoyances.

[siraj.livejournal.com]

I loves me the middle ground *hugs it blissfully, doing the happy dwagon buttwiggle*

[misscam.livejournal.com]

You have long arms ;)

[fan-this.livejournal.com]

First off, agreement on the Rose statement. I like Rose, she's a lot like me, same age, similar situations in life, and similar love of adventure but I don't love her. She makes mistakes, she says silly things, and she uses a HAIR CRIMPER (this is an unforgiveable sin, I assure you).

In regards to middleground in fandom, I think the anonymity of the internet exaserbates the situation. In real life, how many of us would insult each other's work or hobbies so blantantly in their face? The internet allows us a certain allowance for that behavoir because most of us don't know each other personally and don't have to actually deal with each other unless we want to.

I find another thing that makes the middleground harder to settle into is when BNF's come into play. Generally, it's their fans that start the middleground warfare once a BNF is created. You either have to love this fan or hate their guts, sekretly posting friends enteries saying "OMGINSERTBNFHERESUCKS". All of sudden, fandom is split down the middle with the people who just don't care stomping off. The rest battle it out for supremacy of pairing, favorite character, best episode, coolest icon maker, and color of main character's boxer briefs. Sometimes it's one section of fandom, sometimes it's the whole thing.

And god forbid the gen fans or shippers say anything mean about the slashers. Talk about a Holy War.

I hate being forced to choose sides, in fandom or otherwise and most of the time, just refuse to. It's difficult, though probably not as difficult in the SGA fandom (where I've mostly been until Who) as we're much more spread out across different fandoms and about a quarter to a half of us aren't gungho scifi fans, they've just been roped into the SGA fun by their friends or the characters.

I also hate having to worry about how people will take things if I mention I don't like something or disliked this character then or now or whenever I want to. I'm allowed to be flighty, indecisive, or menstrual, THANK YOU.

:frolics in the apple smelling grass:

[fan-this.livejournal.com]

Jesus, I talk a lot.

[harmonyfb.livejournal.com]

::offers you tea and cookies::

I like Rose well enough. She's not my favorite companion (that would be Ace or Liz or Joe - and I quite like Harry, too), but she's not my least favorite (that would be Adric).

Likewise, this Doctor isn't my favorite (Five) or my least favorite (Six).

Note, though, how I couch it in terms not of 'best' and 'worst', but in terms of my own opinion. I realize others may or may not share my viewpoint. And the cool thing about this fandom is that after nearly 30 years of being on-air, there's room enough for everybody and a bag of chips, too. :)

[harmonyfb.livejournal.com]

And that would be "Jo", not "Joe". Stupid typo gremlins.

[tessavance.livejournal.com]

Yes. Perspective and sanity often seem to be lacking in fandom and sometimes makes me want to walk away from it - or just go insane myself.

[misscam.livejournal.com]

That's porbably because it's populated by humans, who can get very very good at the insanity thing.

[megpie71.livejournal.com]

Thanks be to all the gods that are and aren't that the middle ground is so large. There appear to be a lot of us occupying it.

*drops picnic blanket, esky and picnic basket*

Including me.

*sets up picnic site under a tree*

In my case, I think it's a consequence of being a good ten years older (at least) than the majority of internet fandom. I've learned how to hold an opinion without being extreme about it. I've learned I can be wrong, and I've learned that nine times out of ten, someone else's obsession is my "really not interested". I've also learned that I'm perfectly capable of changing my mind about things. The middle ground is comfortable, and it's somewhere where I can talk with people on all sides of whichever argument is raging at the moment (or not, as I choose).

It's a good spot to be. Maybe it means I'll never be a BNF or anything like that, but that's fine by me. I don't want to be one anyway. I just want to putter along in my nice quiet life, meeting up with friends. It means I can wear as many or as few labels as I like, and I can let each label refer only to those traits I want it to refer to.

*lifts glass in Miss Cam's direction*

Cheers.

[misscam.livejournal.com]

You might be right about the age, though I've seen fans in their 40s be just as bad, if not worse than some of teenage lot. However, I have seen people grow more mature about things as they get older, so it does help now and then.

And even if you don't want to be a BNF, you do sometimes become one anyway. Trust me. And then you go a little insane.

*clinks glass*

Cheers, anyhoo. I think I need the drink, oh yes.

[cantralian.livejournal.com]

I totally agree with you. I love the middle ground, for many of the reasons you elucidated so beautifully above, but also because I don't want to cut myself off from possible yummy goodness, be it fic or friends.

I also suspect I know what prompted this (at least the Who bits), and it just baffles me that people are OMG!h8r on people who like or dislike Rose. It's just stupid. I like her, mostly, except when I don't. I don't get why people think that someone holding the opposite opinion to them somehow threatens or devalues that opinion. I like, nay adore, Jack - you're not really a fan, but it doesn't mean we're snarling at each other over drawn knives, ready to fight to the death over whether Jack is the bestest thing evah!

Middle ground all the way, baby!

...uh oh. If you're promoting the middle ground, and we're all Oh YAY the MiddleGround - does that mean that it's now a faction, and those on either side are to be reviled? MiddleGrounders Against the World?

[misscam.livejournal.com]

Who's got time to fight to the death when there's porn to be written, honestly? Besides, I'd win.

I suspects it ties into people confusing opinion with fact, really. If either side acts like it, the other tends to start with it just because they feel defensive. (And I can understand that - I've got two ships in CSI fandom and the one tends to have a lot of people putting the other down and when it gets presented as fact, my fingers start to itch from urge to rip them a new one.)

OhNOES! We've fragmented fandom even more! WE BE EVIL!

Wouldn't the first time someone's tried to be sane about fandom and found it turned to insanity, at least.

[dune-drd.livejournal.com]

Middleground is a good playe to be, I like it here. There's much less poking/wanking around when you don't clearly hate/love a character :)

[misscam.livejournal.com]

Certainly is. But the character hate can be extremely annoying even if you don't love a character as well.

[git-the-goddess.livejournal.com]

I love Whodom expcept for the parts I don't, the grass is greener in the middle, etc, etc.

[reia.livejournal.com]

Okay, so some people hate Rose and some people really, really love Rose

From what I've seen, I really like Rose. I can relate to her. I'd say she's one of the better female characters on TV. I'm inclined to ship her and the Doctor. I've only seen four episodes, but OMG she and the Doctor are in wuv! *cough*

People can get crazy over their fandom of choice. HP is the worst fandom I've ever been in when it comes to shipping. Normal slashers hate the MPREG lot, the MPRG lot are OHSOMIZUNDERSTOOD, the H/Hr shippers hatehatehate the R/Hr and H/G shippers, Slytherin vs. Gryffindor... The list goes on. I hang out at deleterius a lot and man, there can be some crazies there. Mostly just Suethors who have found their story there, but the members are never far from a fight over stupid stuff.

I once got bitched out because I sporked a (very badly written) story that had Tonks and Snape suddenly falling in lust with one another and shagging all over Grimmauld Place. I said I thought it was implausible and that I didn't like the ship. However, I payed more attention to the OOC-ness and the bad writing that anything else but I still had people commenting and saying that I was all condescending and wrong just because I said I didn't like that particular ship. As if they can tell me what I can and don't like.

Besides it was dumb! IT'S A DUMB SHIP!!! *cough*

But yeah. I try to stay on the middle ground with stuff like that. I didn't even have any particular HP ships until the last book came out.

...Did I have a point to this? Oh yeah, I agree with you. Some fans really need to take a chill pill. (Man, how eighties is that saying? Heh.)

[misscam.livejournal.com]

Oh, just you wait on the Doctor/Rose aspect. If you like them so far, you're going to be squee'ing there by the end of the first series.

I really don't ship anything in HP, so I'm there with you. Some shippers can get waaaaaay defensive if you mention not liking their ship - but then again, they do also get bashed by some for simply liking their ship.

It's all very sad and human and idiotic.

[highwindpav.livejournal.com]

Just a quick thank you. I like some extremes, but then, I also like being able to have the official PA position of 'Stick to the canon fer goodness sake ARGH!' while happily reading fanfics about characters that would just never in a million years get together because of canon.

And I really hate being trapped between friends/fans.

::raises a glass::

[misscam.livejournal.com]

*clinks*

Canon is good. Fanfic is good. Sometimes, the two don't get hot and heavy with each other and that can make Cam sad. But if characterisation is true, Cam will read most anything.

[falena]

*takes out her Cam for President badge*

[misscam.livejournal.com]

Cam for the world '08!

[moon-very-thin.livejournal.com]

Middle ground comes with maturity though, and that's spread quite thin on the groud round the net. (But more like lumpy jam than butter, because sometimes one finds large pockets of it.)

You know, about eight years ago when Billie Piper was a pop star over here, and I had 13yr old rage, I loathed her with such a passion that I used to actually tear the page out any time I came across her in a magazine. It's so strange seeing her arrive in fandom, and watching the little fanbrats attack her with that same zeal, while I sit back and think "Wow. They're scary crazy."

[misscam.livejournal.com]

They are. I don't get the passion of it - I can understand dislike someone and all, hello Bush - but with such intensity, devotion and effort? And for something not that important? Odd.

[thesexyplant.livejournal.com]

Long live the middleground. And also, thank you for being the one to say all this. Maybe it'll convince some of those batshit extremists to take a step back and realize how ridiculous they act sometimes...

[nenya_kanadka]

Amen. See also, Jadzia Dax vs. Ezri Dax. Why can't we love both?! Sheesh, people.