Cam loves on David Tennant some, hates on Lega Nord, and wonders on legal precedent

[misscam]

David Tennant writes an article on being the Time Lord. Cam falls a bit in love

*shakes first* Damn you for being hot and charming and so cute, you bastard. (Also worth a peek)

So, apparently "Lega Nord", an Italian party of the right, used the Norwegian Royal family in some election promotion. That charming taglines read "No to Pacs, yes to family!" Pacs here being a sort of "co-habitation contract" that gives unmarried homosexual and heterosexual couples some of the rights of married couples. Lega Nord claim not to have known it was the Norwegian Royal family, they just wanted "an ideal nuclear family", one under threat by gay marriage and pacs, if you believe them. Funny that. That "ideal nuclear family" they nicked is representing a country where gay marriage has been legal for over a decade, and "pacs" for several decades (in fact, "co-habitation" is equal in rights to marriage here, hence why my parents have never married), and yet our Royal family is all nuclear and yay for Lega Nord.

This amuses me way too much. Still, Lega Nord, I find you a bunch of racist twats and I hope you lose the election. Don't be stealing our Royal family again.

Man is jailed for having underage fiction on his computer

Not pictures, video or anything connected to real events, mind you. Just fiction. Sayeth the court...

"It should be obvious to any person that material like this is legally and morally wrong and taboo in the Northern Territory and Australia generally," the magistrate said.
Mr Trigg said the danger of the stories was they "create the perception that this might be acceptable."
"There is also the potential that the written word may encourage someone to act out what they've read," he said.

Am I the only one finding this a bit unsettling? Because that legal reasoning can lead to a lot of shit. In my very laymen's terms, of course. But if having written material - or writing - about certain illegal acts becomes illegal in itself... Hoo boy.

In other news:
Bush under pressure once more
Sweden considers UN request to hold former Liberian President Charles Taylor as prisoner if convicted
Norway shown to be world leader in foreign aid
Firm offers money to end Canada's seal cull, Canada refuses
Arctic fossil shows move from sea to land
Scientist raises theories over the Bible's tale of Jesus's walk on water
'Gospel of Judas' revealed
Facts on the sectarian split of Iraq

Comments

[yattara.livejournal.com]

"There is also the potential that the written word may encourage someone to act out what they've read," he said.

So they're going to ban Lolita next? Or Mein Kampf? (Which, incidentally, is legal to own here, but you're not allowed to sell it.)

[misscam.livejournal.com]

Really? Interesting. Main Kampf is an historical document in some ways, but it remains a highly offensive books, so I can understand handling it with a bit of care.

Does feel like that judge didn't quite think things through.

[yattara.livejournal.com]

Which is why you're not allowed to sell it, though they won't ban it outright. Here being the Netherlands.

*muses* I got books on serial-killers. Hmm...

[misscam.livejournal.com]

Not sure how it is in Norway, actually. I can actually imagine there being some restrictions, given that we were invaded and all.

[yattara.livejournal.com]

So were we.

*shrugs* I never had much desire to read it, so I never really looked into this issue.

Still, owning a copy does not a Nazi make, and it's rather ridiculous of the judge to say that owning a particular piece of work makes people re-enact it.

[misscam.livejournal.com]

never had much urge to read it myself, but might still be interesting to do one day, to see what he said himself and not just what everyone else interprets him into.

I suspect it would make me want to stop all over his non-existent grave in rage, though.

Indeed. Heck, I think I actually have Lolita, though I've never bothered to read it.

[yattara.livejournal.com]

I've heard it's rather boring, as well as incoherent (and utterly vile, since he talks about his plans).

As for Lolita, meh. Probably also not what it's cracked up to be, but I've never read it either.

[falena]

You know what's funny? Most members of Lega Nord are so ignorant that they could have
a) taken a pic of the Norwegian Royal family without knowing who they are.

or

b)used a picture of the Norwegian Royal family on purprose, without knowing the first thing about Norwegian laws.

They are just a bunch of ignorant, racist and disgusting people that have been stirring shit ever since that fuckwit of Berlu gave them the chance of being part of the government.
As my father said today "If these people get relected we should seriously think about moving".

Ah well, just two more days and then we will see. *tries to be hopeful and fails miserably*

I think I'll just go reread Tennat's article, trying to get back to that happy fangirling place where no stupid politician can ever reach.*sigh*

[misscam.livejournal.com]

What charming fellows.

Also, if the election goes badly, my offer of a spare bed in Norway remains.

*fangirls Tennant some*

[binglexjells.livejournal.com]

*loves on Tennant!*

On a slightly related note, I want a sonic screwdriver.

[misscam.livejournal.com]

I have a sonic screwdriver, muhahaha.

It makes funky noises.

[binglexjells.livejournal.com]

Wow. I want one! *sneakily looks for someplace that might sell them*

[immoralilly.livejournal.com]

Man is jailed for having underage fiction on his computer

But that's... I mean, there's fanfic out there that deals with underage stuff. (Not that that makes it right, but...)
Wait a minute. That would make Lolita illegal, wouldn't it?

And oh, the Doctor. So charming *melts*.

[misscam.livejournal.com]

If we go by that judge, yeah. As might potentially fiction about other illegal acts.

He certainly is.

[gehayi.livejournal.com]

I LOVE David Tennant.

And I want a sonic screwdriver, too. And to be able to travel in the TARDIS with the Doctor.

But that's... I mean, there's fanfic out there that deals with underage stuff.

Which is why some websites won't allow stuff involving underage sex. Remember the brouhaha last year about Skyehawke.com banning chan? Well, Skyehawke operates out of Australia, and Australia considers even fictional stories involving kids below the age of consent to be pornography, and illegal. And if Skyehawke archived it, in contravention of Australian law, they'd be leaving themselves open to being shut down, at the very least.

Chan bothers me because I've read interviews with the profilers in
the FBI. Apparently, child molesters and serial rapists cite underage porn quite a bit. Not as a trigger for their actions. As a justification. As in, "See? This is what kids want, after all. I'm ONLY giving them what they want."

For this reason, I won't write chan. I would be terrified that some
twisted pervert would see my story out there and use it as "justification" for hurting some innocent kid.

Moreover, when I see how often young kids write about their pubescent authorial avatars having sex with adult males (often teachers)--well, I wonder how many of these girls are potential targets for child molesters.

And how many of them have experienced some form of molestation already.

Molestation that they're trying to convince themselves was really all right, and that they wanted.

Do I like censorship? No.

But this isn't a black and white issue.

[misscam.livejournal.com]

Got any sources on that? I'd like to read more, and see if there's any other sources on it. I did some limited reading on "abhorrent sexuality" in various sociology courses, and there can be a lot of conflicting opinions and controversy in the field.

Seems to me that many child molestors would rather look for justifications anywhere, and if wasn't fiction, it would be something else. That as such doesn't make it the fiction's fault. It doesn't clear it either as such, but I worry sometimes we get too hung up on external sources in the hunt for blaming "evil acts" on something.

(And for the record here, I'm not at all a fan of chan. I don't read it, I don't write it, and what I have seen of it has rather creeped me out.)

[immoralilly.livejournal.com]

But this isn't a black and white issue.

Of course not, and underage porn is not good, but it does bring up a lot of questions about where the line should be drawn between legality and illegality. Rapists will always find twisted little justifications for their actions.
The whole thing is weird and I can't quite decide where I stand on it.

[aervir.livejournal.com]

I'm having a full-blown crush on David Tennant right now. The embarassing teenage schoolgirl sort. God, I'm too old for this. *flails*

And the sentence concerning child porn fiction scares me a little, too. I mean the guy in question should probably look for a very good therapist if he gets off on it and might be considering to act out his fantasies. But he hasn't done anything yet. No kids were harmed in the process of writing this stuff, as disturbing as it might be.

And on my PC, I've got some Hornblower slash that features underaged midshipmen, too. Does this make me a potential child molester who should be jailed? I think not.

[misscam.livejournal.com]

Oh, I know. And if reading that stuff gets him off and maybe keeps him from, say, looking at childporn or even go after real children, I say that's a heck of a lot better than the alternatives, disgusting as I may find it.

Plus, where the heck would you draw the line? My first time I was underage, but there wasn't anything pedophilic about it, but would still writing about it be illegal?

Hum.

Couldn't have them jail you, I'd have less people to Tennant-squee with

[aervir.livejournal.com]

And if reading that stuff gets him off and maybe keeps him from, say, looking at childporn or even go after real children, I say that's a heck of a lot better than the alternatives.

The problem is that reading this kind of pornography might fuel his fantasies and make him crave more instead of helping him cope with them, but you can't prove this. There's a possibilty, but not a certainty.

And since you can't punish people for crimes they haven't committed yet, you have to make the reading material itself illegal. As you've just said -- now where do you draw the line?

OTOH, the Internet is something like, um, a playground or rather hunting ground for actual pedophiles, but that's a wholly different matter.

I don't think there would be a noticable dearth of Tennant fangirls just bacause they locked one up. And at least, I might still have nice dreams in jail. *stares at your icon*

[misscam.livejournal.com]

Sure, it's possible. I'd say it's probably likely in some cases. It's also possible violent computer games fuel aggressive people's fantasies too. But so many people seem to make the jump from that to claim these things *causes* the illegal behaviour. And then you go for the easy targets and feel good about yourself and nothing much changes at all.

There is a lot of stuff that can fuel the darker sides of humanity, but starting to play thoughtpolice of fantasypolice is a slipper, slippery slope as heck.

I don't know, it just unsettles me to start down that path. And the law is black and white where people are not and just... You risk hurting a lot of innocent people along the way too, and the law is built on the principle that the innocent must be protected, even if it means some guilty walk. That is why the burden of proof is so high.

Would you get to see season two in jail, though?

[aervir.livejournal.com]

Hmmm, I've just looked at my comment above and saw that it's worded in a very, very ambiguous way.

What I actually wanted to say was something along the lines of the comment you just posted, about not playing the thought police for other people's fantasies, only that it didn't come across like this at all. (I should probably stop posting at 1:30 p.m. when I can't even think straight any more, not to mention type properly.)

In my ideal world, stuff like violent computer games or hardcore horror flicks would never be outlawed. People would just be too sensible to pick 'em up, and the market forces of supply and demand would take care of the rest. :D

Damn it, you're right. So I'll make sure to stay out of jail so that I can watch S2. I might get into trouble with the law for downloading it, though. :)

[misscam.livejournal.com]

Aha. Yeah, late nights do that to you.

Course, I like some violent computer games, and I'm not particulary aggressive or violent. In some cases, I really do think little outlets for the darker sides of humanity ain't all bad-

Evil law, wanting to deny us our Tennant, dammmt

[aervir.livejournal.com]

Course, I like some violent computer games, and I'm not particulary aggressive or violent.

Ooops, did I put my foot in my mouth? I certainly didn't want to imply that only people lacking sense like violent computer games. I just wish that all gamers would deal with them in a sensible manner.

And now I'll shut up before I say even more silly things that I didn't mean quite like that... :)

He's so charming that it's probably illegal!

[highwindpav.livejournal.com]

Jailed...for fiction that had illegal content?

Buh?

"There is also the potential that the written word may encourage someone to act out what they've read,"

Well there goes my library. I think my field guide on butterflies is safe...

[yattara.livejournal.com]

Well there goes my library. I think my field guide on butterflies is safe...

Nuh-uh. You might go around restricting those poor butterflies' freedom. ;)

[misscam.livejournal.com]

All my precious crime books would be in danger. Nooo!

Leave my Agatha Christie alone, I say.

[anitchka.livejournal.com]

Well there goes my library.

Mine too. Easily 2/3 of the fiction books I own contain descriptions of murder, so I guess the mind police can deduce that it's only a matter of time before I do naughty things.

[chicklet73.livejournal.com]

David Tennant writes an article on being the Time Lord

All that and he has a flair for the written word too? Is there nothing the man cannot do?

*commits idolatry*

Seriously, what a fantastic article. His enthusiasm and appreciation seem so genuine, as does his blatant fanboy tendencies. Heh.

Thanks for posting the link!!

[misscam.livejournal.com]

I know, his fanboy tendencies are so cute. Makes it easier to be a fan somehow, too.

[briasoleil.livejournal.com]

I think I'm the only Canadian who's opposed to the seal hunt. Though, it should be said that I *am* a vegan. I choose an animal-free/cruelty-free existence on purpose. It would be wildly out of character to support the seal hunt.

[misscam.livejournal.com]

*shrugs* I do favour certain cullings because a too high population can in the long run damage the species itself more than us - eating up so much of the food that they start starving, for instance. Nature is a much crueler culler, really.

[scarlettgirl.livejournal.com]

OMG, could Tennant be any cuter?

::dies::

And the whole Judas thing...how long would I fry in the pits of hell for wanting to write "The Brokeback Gospels"?

"Jesus, I just can't quite you."
"It's what we gotta do, Judas..."
::fade to black::

Yeah, I'm thinking a real long time.

[misscam.livejournal.com]

Come join me in my atheist corner of hell. We got the best pitchforks and horns.

If he could be any cuter, it may be fatal.

[lotus79.livejournal.com]

Man is jailed for having underage fiction on his computer

So is everybody who's read 'Lolita' a criminal now?

While I find it absolutey chilling and distastefull in the extreme that this guy could have been wanking off to ChibiUSA's Seventh Birthday... well, I can't say even that is a criminal act. Now writing it gets a bit closer--for the simple fact that it's been put out there for anyone to find and be traumatised by. (Read: me. OMG, my eyes!)

[lotus79.livejournal.com]

*sheepishly stands in front of the second L in distasteful so nobody can see the typo*

[misscam.livejournal.com]

I see!

Snort, ChibiUSA.

[git-the-goddess.livejournal.com]

Anyone else got an urge to send him a Leela doll?

[misscam.livejournal.com]

... No?

[drakyndra.livejournal.com]

As if I didn't love Teh Tennant enough...

And I am unsure how I feel about the underage fiction thing. It's not exactly going to effect me personally - I neither read, nor write, anything involving underage sexual acts (because it vaguely squicks me, really), but I can see how very easily the law could be used for all sorts of terrible things.

[lotus79.livejournal.com]

I dunno... taken to extremes it makes me wonder if I might be thought a paedo for reading Severus/Hermione fics.

[drakyndra.livejournal.com]

Well, firstly it depends on their ages when the fic is set. And I am curious as to how the law stands when comparing fanfiction with just ordinary fiction.

[misscam.livejournal.com]

Oh yeah. It's the potential reaches of it that bugs me seriously. It seems so wide, you know? Way too wide.

*loves on the Tennant*

[starsong24.livejournal.com]

...

...

It should be obvious to any person that material like this is legally and morally wrong and taboo in the Northern Territory and Australia generally," the magistrate said.

Are they assuming that this has been written from life experience? Has the man in any way acted upon it? Does the court have the right to control what people think now? The right to say what we can read?

It's permitted to read true stories of abuse to children. What's different with fiction? What is wrong with this man simply reading a story?

The court, particularly the mastigrate, ought to be jailed themselves.

[misscam.livejournal.com]

That he might potentially be inspired to act it out, apparently. But if you go there, you go down some troubling other parts as well.

[evilstorm.livejournal.com]

Ohmygod that is such a cute article. XD

And yeah, that's iffy legal territory. I mean, you have childporn stories, which are of course damnable, and then you have stories that are about childporn, which...uhh, well, different.

*incoherent aagh exams but you get the idea*

[misscam.livejournal.com]

He is the cute.

My sympathies on the exams. Eeeeevil.

[evilstorm.livejournal.com]

He is, he is.

Sankyuu.

[elfie-samurai.livejournal.com]

You know Cam, I always like seeing the news articles you post because they're often very interesting and amusing. It's therefore a bit upsetting when I can't read them. =P Is there anywhere on the website (of the Lega Nord article, obviously) where one can read an English translation or something? (I looked for online translators, but, shockingly enough, could find none which involved Norwegian...)