Cam ponders the death penalty and RPF

[misscam]

Inmate to be forcibly medicated - then he can be declared competent to be executed

Oh goody. Excuse me while I fell ill. Me, I don't like the death penalty. In fact, I find it fairly troubling, against my own moral compass and nothing much to do with justice at all. Others disagree, as is the way of things, and I can see where some of the disagreeing come from. A life for a life does give some a feeling of things being balanced. But for me, that doesn't work. Nothing makes up for a killing, and certainly not another killing. Certain crimes you cannot even out - murder, child abuse, rape... As Lord of the Rings so memorably put it - Many that live deserve death. Some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them, Frodo? Do not be too eager to deal out death and judgment.

To be frank, the way some people cheerfully celebrate it at times makes me sick to the stomach. And drugging up some guy just long enough for him to be able to understand that yes, he's now getting killed, that just makes me sad. Maybe I'm being terribly European about it all. I am sometimes reminded that though the US and Europe share a lot of things, in some ways we do view the world very differently. Maybe I'll just chalk this down as another thing I Just Don't Get.

RPF wank, round the gazillion

Oi. I have friends who have no worries about RPF and write it gleefully, and I have people who find it rather offensive and disgusting, and I wander the wilderness somewhere in the middle, sometimes not being too bothered by it, sometimes bothered by it. It tends to vary with how it's written, what it's written about, context and how much it uses from real life. I do know it bothers me a great deal a real person gets villified in RPF that isn't clearly satire or otherwise mainly humerous - as Sean Astin was in many Elijah/Dom tinhat fics, for instance. In other cases, I've read worse in English tabloids.

What I do think is that bombastic attacks from either side ain't particulary helpful. And that sometimes people need to have some tea and let things go and chalk it up to things you Just Don't Get. (Or as I put it at fandom_wank - Hard as though it is, sometimes it is advisable to opt for STFU and wait for the Internet to be distracted by something new and shiny. New Doctor Who episodes, baby!)

In other news:
Australian PM faces inquest over Iraq wheat scandal (Oh, Johnny. Have you been a naughty boy?)
Man took '40,000 ecstacy pills' (!!!)
Use of 'spaz' sparks debate (I didn't know that's where the word came from. Learn something every day...)
Italy faces weeks of political blah-blah and uncertainty (Oooooi.)
'The War on Terror' now renamed 'The Long War' (You know it's bad when a war needs a rebranding and PR campaign for new name.)

Comments

[boz4pm.livejournal.com]

Hmm... I'm a child of the 70s and 'spaz' or 'spazzer' was always offensive. 'Mongoloid' was also in use at the time. For some reason 'spastic' and 'spaz' hung on a lot longer in the playground, but it was always a derogatory and rather offensive term.

As for new Doctor Who... THERE ARE TRAILERS RUNNING ON BBC RADIO 4! *dies of excitement* Hee! *bounces*

[misscam.livejournal.com]

Yes, but I grew up in Norway, and we call each other other offensive things in the playground, you know?

*bounces around with you* Eee! Eee!

[boz4pm.livejournal.com]

Oh, yes, sorry - my random waffling was not directed at you but at the person who wrote that article.

*still bouncing* *and grinning like a loon* The announcer just before the trailer said something about 'soon it will be time to make a space behind your sofa'! *snerrrrk* I SO used to do that when watching Tom Baker as a kid: sitting in terror behind the sofa or curled up in a ball watching through my fingers as the 'very-obviously-a-poorly-paid-actor-in-a-bin-liner' monster wreaked havoc. *lol*

[misscam.livejournal.com]

Aaaaah, right. Gotcha now-

*sniffs sadly* I grew up without the joy of being scared shitless by Who. Oh, the sadness.

On the other hand, I did grow up with the joy of troll tales. Humhum.

[boz4pm.livejournal.com]

*sniffs sadly* I grew up without the joy of being scared shitless by Who. Oh, the sadness.
*looks sad on your behalf* You was deprived, you was. You must have watched The Hulk, though, no? Or was that before your time? I think him turning green used to scare me even more than Who, to be honest. I got banned from watching it in the end because I would get so freaked.

Troll tales... I've heard of those. Kind of like the boogie man and your worst nightmare rolled into one, yes?

[misscam.livejournal.com]

No, didn't see the Hulk either. Only thing I can vaguely remember scaring me was some cartoon where the main characters where in a castle and the owner had a garden full of statues and it was all very scary.

Oh yes. Those get fairly nasty.

[scarlettgirl.livejournal.com]

Awww man...ginmar and jennyo wank! Good Times. Now I'm feeling all nostalgic. I even found one of my comments from The Battle of 2003 - before I learned my lesson that the batshit can suck you in and turn you into a dribbling idiot just like that. Now I'm just an equal opportunity mocker - it's so much more fun that way.

(Although I do wish I had had a piece of the Doctor/Incest/Pompadour!Slut/BINGO! wank.)

[misscam.livejournal.com]

Oooh, you were there? You're like a historical figure. Do tell, what was it like?

Heh, I was actually on ginmar's flist for years until I poked at a wank involving her in this LJ before Christmas and then it was discovered we clearly do not share the same sense of humour. Whoops.

(Oh, have no fear. When the ep airs, I'm sure there'll be a round two.)

[scarlettgirl.livejournal.com]

Hee. Yes, I'm feeling quite historical.

What was it like?

Hmm....Jennyo waving her flag of intellectual superiority and Cali disdain while Gin countered with hair-triggered feminism and frothing self-righteousness. Pretty much status quo for both. Although I do recall that someone RPF'd Gin which was really Not Nice.

Sadly, both of these women have a lot to say that is worthwhile but I have no respect for grudge matches and neither one has a sense of humor which really bothers me. I mean, come on...it's the internet.

[misscam.livejournal.com]

A sense of humour is vital to keep your sanity on the Net, I think.

Grudge-matches are such a pain to stumble into. By that they they're usually all unreasonable and supporting either side feels like pulling a teeth.

I've been RPF'ed, but good-humouredly, which makes a bit of a difference, I guess. Plus, I try to see the funny it most things. Saves so much bitchiness.

[yattara.livejournal.com]

This is a good reason for me to stay on the edges of any fandom, and only occasionally poke fun at the rabid wankers.

[scarlettgirl.livejournal.com]

I don't mind being in the middle of things but I really have no time for the wank. My RL is challenging enough. Who wants to get all prickly over fandom.

[yattara.livejournal.com]

Given some of the shouting I've done at the computer today, I don't really have a leg to stand on. Yes, I am that inconsistent :| To be fair, the shouting was at some of the bathsit insane rabid wankers.

I can see why people would get prickly. It's 'This is how it is! Why can't you see it my way?!' Why you'd getthat portective of a fandom is another story, yes.

[aervir.livejournal.com]

What kind of shit is this? Forcefeeding a mentally ill person his drugs so that he gets suddenly "sane", "reasonable" and understands why he should be executed? And then killing him?

I truly have no words. I had no idea that something like this might even possible.

[misscam.livejournal.com]

Seems utterly unbelieveable from our perspective, doesn't it? As do the whole 'executing people for crimes committed as minors' bit. I can't wrap my mind around it.

Another thing I've found out is that in at least one state (I'm fairly sure there were more than one, too) to be executed you only need one doctor to declare you mentally capable - doesn't matter if 70 other doctors have declared you not capable. Once that one guy says okay, a-executing they go.

[aervir.livejournal.com]

Another thing I've found out is that in at least one state (I'm fairly sure there were more than one, too) to be executed you only need one doctor to declare you mentally capable - doesn't matter if 70 other doctors have declared you not capable. Once that one guy says okay, a-executing they go.


Okay, now I'm really speechless. My icon says it all. Meanwhile, I'll be banging my head against the wall.

[misscam.livejournal.com]

I know.

It really is miles away from our kind of thinking, innit?

[spotts1701.livejournal.com]

What can I say...it's Texas, and apparently the "frontier justice" mentality still has a iron grip on the legal system there.

[aervir.livejournal.com]

I like the way you put "frontier justice" in quotation marks.

And nice icon, that.

[immoralilly.livejournal.com]

BBC3 is running all of Series 1 this week, and giving us lots of new!Who clips. And have you seen the beauty that is the Tardisode?

RPS. Hum. It definitely depends on who it's about. Narnia RPS, for example, makes me scream UNDERAGE! BAD AUTHOR! at the screen. But most of the other stuff... It's OK, I suppose.

The death penalty in the US strikes me as deeply ironic. There's Bush telling the other nations of the world that they must all follow America's superior brand of civilisation... where they kill people.

[misscam.livejournal.com]

Seen it online. Yay for Internet.

underage stuff in general tend to make me icky, but again, depends on how it's handled. I tend to be slightly careful of making too many black/white categories.

Heh, well put.

[cbackson.livejournal.com]

Not ginmar again. *facepalms*

[misscam.livejournal.com]

Familiar with her, I gather?

[cbackson.livejournal.com]

I'm trying to remember which particular episode of wankitude introduced me to her and I can't pinpoint which it is. Fortunately, I've always been a bystander to the phenomenon, rather than a participant.

[adoraheatherly.livejournal.com]

I saw that man's face and started crying. Have swiped the link and ranted a bit myself.

For the record, I agree with you 100%.

[misscam.livejournal.com]

It's probably the saddest reason I've heard for helping someone ever - restore his state of mind so you can kill it entirely. There's a shining moment in the mental health profession.

[wickedelf.livejournal.com]

I wander the wilderness somewhere in the middle, sometimes not being too bothered by it, sometimes bothered by it.

That's basically how I am about it. I don't mind some fandoms, some pairings, and some authors, but I don't go looking for it and I approach it with caution.

[misscam.livejournal.com]

*nods* I used to come across it a lot more in LotR fandom, where you did tend to bump into it sooner or later. Some fandoms have it more than others, really.

[wendymr.livejournal.com]

Okay, I give in... what's RPF?

As for the drugging the guy so he can be declared competent and then executed... I lost the ability to be shocked by what the American 'justice' system does in support of its rabid use of the death penalty long ago. Executing someone with the mental age of a child. Executing someone half of whose brain was missing. Clinton signing the execution warrant in a very dubious case just so he wouldn't be considered soft on crime in the run-up to his election campaign. You name it; it all makes me sick.

Civilised nation; the greatest democracy in the world? Don't make me laugh.

[scarlettgirl.livejournal.com]

RPF: Real Person Fic. For example, if someone wrote a story about David Tennant and Billie Piper and their on-set love affair.

RPS: Real Person Slash. For example, if someone wrote a story about David Tennant and John Barrowman and their on-set love affair.

RPS is far more popular, from my observation, and has quite a following in the LoTR realm, much of it fueled by the actor's *bonding* experiences in New Zealand.

Now, don't you feel better for having all that useless information? *g*

[misscam.livejournal.com]

Don't forget executing the innocent. It has happened.

AS for RPF, I see scarlettgirl explained it nicely, so I'll just leave this link to an example.

[wendymr.livejournal.com]

Thanks to you both. And urgh - hate fics about real people.

Yes, executing the innocent... Britain's done it too, but at least there's no chance of that any more.

[siraj.livejournal.com]

as for the whackjob getting medicated... yeah, it even makes me ill.

Oh, and for my stance... I'm for the death penalty in only one instance, and that's for the man that murdered my uncle. I'd happily pull the trigger myself, just for the feeling of knowing that my uncle's been avenged. Knowing that he's sitting in jail, getting meals and the like on my own taxpayer dollars just wounds my very soul.

[misscam.livejournal.com]

But that, as you said, is "avenging". Heck, I can understand it - parts of me want to push the bastard who fucked me over off a cliff. But that's me wanting revenge. That doesn't make it right.

[siraj.livejournal.com]

it may not be 'right', but it'd sure make me feel a lot better. Finding out that he was dumped into a drainage ditch and his body wasn't found for another three days just makes it hurt all the more, to know that he's not getting and real 'punishment', in my estimation.

[undeadgoat.livejournal.com]

So we haven't had a death penalty where I live (Wisconsin) since 1858, after having executed once guy in 1851 -- and yet stupid legislators want a referendum to bring it back. Because obviously we're not doing enough to deter captial crimes, with a murder rate of 3.2 per 100,000 people in 2000. (National average that year: 5.5)

[megpie71.livejournal.com]

I read the bit about the death-row inmate, and I find myself caught by a couple of things. Firstly, it is *easy* to fake the symptoms of mental illness - after all, it's a perceptual thing, and there are no biochemical tests which can be done to prove one way or the other that you are or aren't mentally ill. If you display enough of the symptoms over a sufficiently long period of time, you fit the category.

Secondly, I'd point out that the death penalty isn't going to stop criminal manslaughter when ballistic projectile weaponry (ie the gun) is available fairly readily anywhere in the country. The original murder occurred when the hostage was attempting to resist being put into a hijacked car - and in the context, was probably accidental. Had the criminals been armed with knives rather than guns, it's likely things wouldn't have escalated that far. However, it's not likely that such a thing is going to be considered in the current US culture. Possibly the trick would be to work on culture change, in the direction of "a gun is the weapon of a coward"?

Finally, the information about the family history of the person in question makes me really glad I don't live in the US - that there is a family history of treatable mental illness (schizophrenia is treatable) which went untreated for so long (presumably for financial reasons) seems just as criminal as the murder this man is being executed for.

Oh, and with the renaming of the War on Terror to "The Long War" - why do I get these flashes of "we have always been at war with Oceania"? Putting a country on a permanent war footing is a very nice way of being able to sneak in citizen control measures on the sly. I wonder whether the US is going to clean up its own back yard first, though? Or is it just going to be another method for the US to exert economic dominance over the Third World?

By the way - the Iran wheat scandal came about because the Australian Wheat Board was trying to sell their product against competition from the US and EU. I'll start feeling ashamed of the kickbacks when those two big players start feeling ashamed of the subsidies they pay farmers. Oh, but I forgot... it's a level playing field, isn't it, guys.

I think I'll stop there... my cynicism is getting out of hand.

[everysecondtues.livejournal.com]

*sigh* I don't think the problem is guns. I think the problem is with U.S. culture itself. In Canada, it's fairly simple (from what I understand), so long as you're of age and such, to purchase a gun, but they don't have anywhere near the problems as the U.S. I think you're correct that what needs to be worked on is culture change. Sadly, though, that's about as likely as making firearms illegal.

[tessavance.livejournal.com]

I find it very disturbing that people from other countries actually know who little Johnny is. A lot of Australians hope he's invisitble to rest of the world, or would like to be able to claim he's a Kiwi (like Russell Crowe when he makes an arse of himself). I'd like to know who the hell keeps voting for him - nobody I've ever met would admit to it.

[highwindpav.livejournal.com]

Drugging up convicts so they will understand they're gonna get killed: Only In America. ::bashes head into desk::

I know some people with cerebral palsy who refer to their symptoms as spasticity. That's what it's called, and it doesn't take a genius to get from spastic to spaz... That said, one of those commenters was right, in America 'spaz' has passed well outside the realm of disability now, just like idiot and moron no longer refer to levels of low IQ when used colloquially. I'll have to pass on the requirement that I, as a disabled person, should be deeply offended that the word was used though. I'd rather not have people tell me what should and should not offend me.

[falena]

I just want to say a big ITA to yuor first two paragraphs. You said exactly what I feel, just a million times better than I ever could.

[everysecondtues.livejournal.com]

Maybe I'm being terribly European about it all. I am sometimes reminded that though the US and Europe share a lot of things, in some ways we do view the world very differently. Maybe I'll just chalk this down as another thing I Just Don't Get.

If it makes you feel any better, I may be American, but I really don't get a lot of what's going on, either. A lot of it I'll chalk up to my fellow citizens, but still. My country makes me want to cry.

[everysecondtues.livejournal.com]

A lot of it I'll chalk up to the stupidity of my fellow citizens.

Typed too fast and left out a couple words.

[evilstorm.livejournal.com]

I do not like the idea of killing a mentally ill person in the least. No, I don't necessarily have beef with the death penalty, but killing someone who's clearly not in his right mind is fucked up and stupid and completely defies the purpose of the death penalty, which is to deter others from committing the same crime, because for fuck's sake he isn't capable of thinking straight. Also do not like the doctors-participating-in-executions thing, or the one-doctor-can-declare-competent tripe either.

Come to think of it, the system is fucking stupid. Sigh.