When Canada Is Invaded and Other Happenings

[misscam]

Shiny new look of my Doctor Who fic page, yay (adoralyna's work) I've now written 28 of them. Not bad, eh? Must increase that number, though.

Meanwhile, I'm stocking up my wank shelter, as spoilers for both Doctor Who and CSI makes me think I'll need it. Any of sane disposition is welcome. Just bring alcohol and food.

and you can sit there secure in canada because americans are fighting your battles for you. you owe your freedom to our soldiers.

Because Canada has been so under threat of invasion lately...? *scratches head* Also, can someone kill the "you owe your freedoms to US!" argument already? I've heard it so many time, and got it tossed at Norway when refusing to back the Iraq war too. I'm just a weeee bit tired of it.

It wasn't just the US fighting WW2, shockingly. Going by that argument, we owe the Russians too, and they probably got the nastiest deal of everyone. First Hitler fucked them over, then Stalin did. (Peek at one estimate of dead in WW2 and wince at the USSR loss.) And mustn't forget the British, holding the fort when no one else were. Or the resistance fighters in any country that was occupied. It was NOT the Nazis versus the Americans, end of story, let's make a blockbuster out of it! Heck, Americans didn't even join it until Japan forced it and Germany, being an ally of Japan, declared war on the US as well. Many American soldiers did die, and I honour their sacrifice, but when dipshits try to claim their deaths for bullshit arguments nowadays, I feel annoyed. They died because we, as in humanity, fucked up in the first place. How are we honouring them by fucking up some more?

And I take a moment to honour the dead of the other side too, most of which just had no fucking clue. I'm sorry you died. No life should have to be wasted like that, whatever side.

I hope you'd found the world built on your ashes to be a little better, at least.

Links of interest:
Historian argues for Bush being the worst President in history
English version of Nemi
Huh.

Comments

[fixing.livejournal.com]

because ... we're so ... emprisonned? seriously? it's ... CANADA. when have we EVER been ... not free? i'm so confused. it makes my brain ache.

[misscam.livejournal.com]

Aren't you technically still under British rule, though? Clearly, you're all unfree and not worthy and stuff.

[fixing.livejournal.com]

in 1982, pierre trudeau succeeded in amending the constitution (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pierre_Trudeau#Constitutional_legacy) to give us complete national independence. which means yes, we're still TECHNICALLY under the commonwealth, but really, it doesn't have much to do with us. it's kind of a figurehead-type thing.

[misscam.livejournal.com]

Much like Australia, then.

The Commonwealth does actually have an impressive number of countries in it still. But all figure-heading, as you said.

[20thcenturyvole.livejournal.com]

I initially wrote a bit, long, gigantic ranty rant about the whole "You owe us!" thing, much of which was directed at Americans for freaking out about World War Two, during which 43,000 British civilians alone were killed while America dicked around with the isolationism thing, and about all the Australians who fought the Japanese and were imprisoned in concentration camps that made Auschwitz look like a happy shiny fun place (my great-grandfather among them), but have erased it, I am cool, I am calm. But the next time I hear it in person, I will choke a bitch.

Message ends.

[misscam.livejournal.com]

*pats* My country was invaded and fucked around with during that time too. (Though we were treated better than some countries, due to us being Aryan. *eyeroll*) We didn't have the military to fight the Germans, but we didn't sit around on our asses and wait for the Americans either.

And I saw a documentary on a Norwegian commado who fought with the Australians in Papa New Guinea and other places against the Japanese. That was an eyeopener, let me tell you.

[mittendorfer.livejournal.com]

*Offers obscene amount of drinks for shelter*

You know I'm now going to have to read all of that page now don't you? There goes my productive morning.

Looking at the trees that were planted near a relatives village in Italy (one for each patriot shot for fighting against their own people and of course fascism) taught me that war is a mightly fucked up sad thing.

[misscam.livejournal.com]

I'm... sorry? At least you'll start your morning with no illusions about how stupid humans can be, and all.

As someone once put it - the only thing sadder than losing a war is winning it. War fucks us all over.

[mittendorfer.livejournal.com]

*nods* Too fecking true.

(My morning will be spent merrily in smut and awe. My indebted thanks.)

[misscam.livejournal.com]

(You're welcome, I think. Whatcha poking about with?)

[mittendorfer.livejournal.com]

Hmmm, as in reading? (Brain doesn't function well before 11am.)

[misscam.livejournal.com]

Ah, the lure of fanfic. Few can resist its siren call.

[kateorman.livejournal.com]

Does that poster realise that US has worked out a plan to invade Canada (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/12/29/AR2005122901412.html), just in case?

[misscam.livejournal.com]

Hah! That is truly an awesome read. Especially the characterisation of the British.

[avari-elf.livejournal.com]

It wasn't just the US fighting WW2, shockingly. Going by that argument, we owe the Russians too, and they probably got the nastiest deal of everyone.

Word, word, word. Without the USSR, everybody was fucked. Seriously, every time an asshat uses that argument, I just want to say "I'm thankful to the soldiers of that time, who gave their life and were braves. But George W Bush and his neoconservative buddies? Do not deserve anything from me or my country."

And God do I hear the argument often enough, as a "surrendering French monkey" (I'll never forgive them that expression, I'm rather resentful that way).

This was the WEHRMACHT. In two years, they conquered all of Western Europe and lost only 30,000 troops in the process. That's less than the casualties of Gettysburg. Some Americans should try to get that in their head.

Yeah, the French were scared of Hitler. Hell, who wasn't? Chamberlain, the British PM, all but licked the Fuhrer's boots. Stalin signed a sweetheart deal with Hitler, and Stalin wasn't a shaking coward.

So I'd love to see assholes face a nazi army in 1940, with all your land neighbouring countries allied with Germany or invaded.

Which is why your numbers make me smirk.

[misscam.livejournal.com]

It is an interesting debate one might have on how much playroom Hitler got at first had to do with the simple desire of the allies to avoid repeating WWI. So easy to be all wise after and see the threat Hitler was, but we forget at the time, Stalin seemed as much a threat.

Really, WWII is a history in baaaad military planning on all sides at one point or another. Americans should remember the US military dicked it up in teh Pacific quite a bit. It wasn't all "US saves the day!" It was "the Allies saves the day with some help of Hitler being an idiot".

The only thing I owe Bush is my right as a free citizen of the world - thanks to people who aren't him and have not been proven to vote for him - to tell him to go stick his head in a vat of lutefisk.

[anckyria.livejournal.com]

Hell, the Finns were pretty scared of Hitler in spite of being considered nice Aryan allies by the Nazi government. Contrary to some dumbass American's assertion, we did NOT particularly want to form that "alliance" of sorts with Hitler's gang. But it was either that or be spectacularly swallowed up by Stalin's gang, and that was definitely not the preferred option considering the ever-recurring attempts of Novgorod and the subsequent Russian empire to annex us... Try that choice between two evils beforé bitching at me for my ancestors' "Nazi sympathies"!

[misscam.livejournal.com]

I've always rather admired the Finnish "Winterwar". For all the impossible odds, you fought very well and rather did kick Russian ass.

Sadly, the Nazis in Germany used the winterwar to make Norwegians enlist to allegedly fight on your side, and instead they were sent to the Eastern Front and fought Russians there.

[nenya_kanadka]

I've always admired the Norwegians in WWII, ever since I read about the kids who smuggled gold out of the country on sleds under the noses of Nazi guards. :) I possibly have a similar stereotype of Scandinavians as brave and free to the one liberal Americans have of Canada. :D

[misscam.livejournal.com]

Aww.

We did some things I'm proud of during the war. Biggest civil disobedience of the war was in fact in wee Norway, when the whole population told the Quisling government to go dick itself. And a lot of Yugoslavian prisoners of war were sent here, and a lot of Norwegians helped them at great personal risk. My grandparents did, and we still have a carved wooden bird some Serbian prisoner made and gave to my grandfather.

I always wonder what happened to that prisoner, and if he was able to survive and go home. I hope so.

[anckyria.livejournal.com]

Heh, apparently one of the Soviet high command's big mistakes was to not check the origins of the troops they sent up to the Finnish border. Kazhaks and Ukrainians in the middle of deep snow in the Karelian forests - HAH! Quite likely most of those Kazhaks, Ukrainians and whatnots barely knew where they were and had no real inducement to invade our obscure wee country. We, on the other hand, had every intention of stuffing Stalin's head up his capacious rectum if we possibly could, since he'd seen fit to start a war.

[misscam.livejournal.com]

We, on the other hand, had every intention of stuffing Stalin's head up his capacious rectum if we possibly could

Bwhah!

My tiny, tiny bit of Finnish blood heartily approves.

[hadria.livejournal.com]

Haha, I find the "where would the world be if not for US intervention in WW2" arguement so ridiculous. It's such obvious whoring for attention and gratitute. Especially considering how they threw all the Canadians on Juno beach on D-day so they'd basically be slaughtered as a distraction, and we still managed to capture the beach and move inland within hours. So that's a thanks for basically using us as lambs to the slaughter, I guess?

[misscam.livejournal.com]

I prefer to give my gratitude to those not whoring for it, really.

So yay, Canada! Thanks for helping us, too. (We had some troops trained there, since Norway was being occupied.) We likes you.

[nenya_kanadka]

Word wordity word. And HOW many other Canadians do you have on your flist, Cam? Obviously we are enlightened folk! ;) And did send many soldiers to the World Wars, and often got screwed over at least as much as the other Allied troops, 'cause we weren't one of the Big Three (or Four, or whatever it was), and so were considered a bit disposable. (Though actually my family wasn't Canadian at the time, and my grandpa who fought in WWII & was a POW before he was 20 was American. So mostly my Canadian nationalism should probably apply to the more recent wars, in which case I say: If we don't think going to Iraq (or Vietnam) is a good idea--that's our sodding business! Same thing goes for France. Just 'cause the US wants to fight a war doesn't mean everyone else has to agree, or is being evil for not agreeing with them. There's this little thing called national sovereignty, right? Which means the French get to make their own decisions, and the Canadians do--but somehow I don't think Fearless Leader quite gets that.)

(And P@L puts up a post about how "To pro-Bush war supporters, the world is forever stuck in the 1930s", by the way.)

I'll bring coolers and chocolate frosting (to be eaten out of the jar) to the wank shelter, eh?

[misscam.livejournal.com]

And HOW many other Canadians do you have on your flist, Cam?

I have so no idea. I'll have to poll it. My flist is kinda large, so keeping track is evil. There are a few. And quite a few Aussies. Some Brits. A lot of Americans. Some various other countries. And a wee trinkle of Norwegians.

And indeed - the wars the US have picked haven't always turned out to be teh right thing to do, now have they? Everyone's got a right to make up their own mind what they want to potentially die for, you ask me.

Sounds good to me ;)

[kittycatness.livejournal.com]

They died because we, as in humanity, fucked up in the first place. How are we honouring them by fucking up some more?

A-fucking-men

♥

[aervir.livejournal.com]

Many American soldiers did die, and I honour their sacrifice, but when dipshits try to claim their deaths for bullshit arguments nowadays, I feel annoyed. They died because we, as in humanity, fucked up in the first place. How are we honouring them by fucking up some more?

Amen to that.

I've never quite understood the "logic" behind the old lie of "Once lots of young men died, and now some more have to die, too, so that these deaths were not in vain."

Especially not if the events during which said deaths occur(red) have got as little in common as WWII and the Iraq War. It always makes my inner historian cringe and writhe in pain whenever someone comes up with historical "parallels" to justify about anything. I mean it's not as if the course of history is handed down to humankind in neat little lessons and shiny agitprop ads for anyone's bloody convenience.

I like the English Nemi cartoon, by the way. *bookmarks*

[anckyria.livejournal.com]

A-fucking-men to that! I wonder what has happened to the phrase "learn from past mistakes". It seems that the preferred way is still to deliberately repeat even the sort of history that is really not worth repeating. V for vengeance, eye for an eye, and all that crap over and over again ad nauseam.

[aervir.livejournal.com]

V for vengeance, eye for an eye, and all that crap over and over again ad nauseam.

I find it especially ironical that "an eye for an eye" is probably the most misunderstood doctrine ever, as it calls for a strictly limited kind of retribution (in some interpretations even limited to financial compensation), not for wreaking some more havoc for havoc's sake.

Not to mention the fact that "eye for an eye" is completely overthrown by the Sermon of the Mount and its call for humility and pacificism anyway...

[misscam.livejournal.com]

History is a lovely guide on what mistakes have been done and probably shouldn't be done again. It can tell you a lot about what was *wrong*. It can tell you very little about what will be right in the future, and thus its uses as justifying choices are limited.

IMO, of course.

Nemi is love, yay.

[aervir.livejournal.com]

It can tell you a lot about what was *wrong*. It can tell you very little about what will be right in the future, and thus its uses as justifying choices are limited.

Exactly.

And even the wrong choices can often be understood and explained in retrospective, sadly enough. Not that we wouldn't be able to learn anything from history at all -- it's just... well, to quote Charlie Brown, "Why does everything have to be so complicated?!? :)

[belegcuthalion.livejournal.com]

And I take a moment to honour the dead of the other side too, most of which just had no fucking clue. I'm sorry you died. No life should have to be wasted like that, whatever side.

Amen to that. And if I ever see George Bush in front of a dramatically fluttering american flag again, with this "I am the american messiah and this is the Holy Crusade of Doom"-expression on his face, I'm going to vomit.

[mahala.livejournal.com]

Rant's already been done in another post, but, at least in the part of the US where *I* grew up, we were taught the most heavily censored version of the last two hundred years I could ever imagine.

That includes omitting large portions of it, such as, oh, the Vietnam and Korean wars. That's right, kiddos: if you were in high school in Texas in the 80's, those things NEVER HAPPENED. Everything I wanted to know about them I learned from M*A*S*H*. Until I was old enough to find a history book neither written by nor approved by the administration.

All while being encouraged to sing about the Land of the Free, Home of the Brave.

Naturally, the US won WWII singlehandedly. Naturally.

I wonder how many decades will pass before children are taught *any* version of the current administration?

[yattara.livejournal.com]

Sure I'm grateful for those sacrifices, given that my country was conquered during WWII. I don't, however, do well given forced thanks. There goes my spontaneity.

And it's not like life in Germany, or any of the other of the 'evil' countries was anything to write home about. How's about some perspective, dipshits?

Oh hey, I got more booze. Can I come in too?

[norwegianne.livejournal.com]

Bah, the next time someone claims: "Without us, you'd speak German." I'm going to point out that the USSR did indeed liberate Norway first.

[lucia-tanaka.livejournal.com]

Because Canada has been so under threat of invasion lately...?

I have this conversation with my fellow yanks a lot. "They have nice things because of us!" "Um, no, they'd be better offfine without America. They don't go out of their way to pissed the rest of the world off."

If anything, doesn't America's proximity endanger the wonderful Canuckistanians more?

[chem-nerd.livejournal.com]

*brings chocolate baked goods, poptarts, and various fruity girly drinks to wank shelter* Just take the bottle away from me when I get about halfway through, all right? I REALLY can't hold my liquor.

*pulls out a can of Whoop-Ass(TM)* All right. point me towards Mister Freedom-Fighter up there. *Opens can of Whoop-Ass(TM) on ignorant ass' ass*

I seriously need a canned whoop-ass icon.

[highwindpav.livejournal.com]

I seem to remember a an old Nova Scotian friend of mine telling me that we invaded Canada in the Revolutionary War.

::brings in Pop-Tarts, crackers, cheese spread, and a large bottle of Gray Goose for shelter::

[scarlettgirl.livejournal.com]

I've decided that, in order to protect my sanity, I'll only wade in the shallow end today so to this...

Must increase that number, though.

I say "Bravo!"

[sinneahtes.livejournal.com]

Ugh. I'm very proud of the U.S. soldiers who fought and the individuals back home who made real sacrifices to support them during WWII. And every time I see some idiot saying "We Americans saved your butts!" for some stupid (and usually petty) argument -- well, not only does it feel like stealing credit from the other countries who fought harder and suffered more than the U.S., it feels like some stupid young ignoramus who never saw a real war for him or herself is stealing the credit and cheapening the work of those Americans who actually were there.

[vixenmage.livejournal.com]

AIIIII!

GIVE IT UP ALREADY, THIS IS NOT THE BEST PLACE IN THE WORLD, AS A MATTER OF FACT, WE SUUUUCK VERY, VERY MUCH! YES, WE HAVE COOL FEATURES. NO, we did not fight WWII on our own. THE BRITISH, DAMN IT! THE BRITISH!! You know, Winston CHURCHILL?! BOMBING RAIDS, OF WHICH WE HAD PRECIOUS FEW IF ANY?!

Overall.

There is a difference between patriotism and blind stupidity.

This? BLIND STUPIDITY.

It rather makes me want to move out of this country, slapping all who I pass on my way. *sigh*

[chunkylimes.livejournal.com]

US threatening our freedoms in 1812 and various other occasions + US doing some protecting of everyone's freedoms = negative overall value for US protecting Canada's freedoms.

[sekhmets-temple.livejournal.com]

Because Canada has been so under threat of invasion lately...?

Yeah, our televisions are being invaded daily by really bad American sitcoms and Reality TeeVee.

Peek at one estimate of dead in WW2 and wince at the USSR loss.

Now that is a tragedy of devastating proportions. I remember learning about it in my History classes and just being emotionally slapped by it, you know? We watched some episodes from an exceptional series, The World at War narrated by Laurence Olivier, that dealt with the war in the USSR and the death toll was almost too much for me to process. One other thing that also really got to me was in regards those who died in the winter and were covered by snow; when the snow thawed, all the bodies began to surface...it was hell for the survivors, too.