A Scientology-linked suicide spurring RAGE; Cam ponders religion

[misscam]

What everyone is talking about in Norway today:

The daughter of a member of Norway's parliament committed suicide hours after she received what her family claims were "devastating" results from a personality test administered by the Church of Scientology. Police in France, where the young woman was studying, are investigating.

...

Yeah. That's just... Yeah. The Church of Scientology is calling it unfair to be dragged into it, psychologists are calling the test a dangerous hack tool and I'm just staring at it all with large amounts of RAGE.

I'm an atheist. It's not a choice I've come to lightly, because there is a side of me that feels fairly spiritual. I want to believe in something. But I don't believe there is a god, as many religions preach. I can't - perhaps it would have been a strength if I could, perhaps it would have been a bad. Either way, I don't. So I've come to believe in life and the universe, and that both might have things beyond our capacity for understanding.

Someone on my flist once made a remark that went something like 'I can't understand how someone can't believe in God'. I've always been tempted to answer 'I don't understand how someone can believe in God', but that's not entirely true. I understand why someone would want to believe. Oh yeah, that I understand.

Belonging, purpose, direction, support, comfort - all these things religion might give. I've never felt the particular hostility towards religion in general, it's more hostility when a particular religion is pushing its views too much.

So what's with my RAGE on Scientology? Is it because I feel it's so clearly bogus, while I give other religions a pass for being more plausible? Is it the total loathing of Tom Cruise, or just the way Scientology has behaved in general? Is it the media attention? Is it that I just don't count it as religion and more as the vein of Fred Phelps, just using religion as a cover for preying on people?

I am not all too sure, but I do know that the mere mention of Scientology drives my blood-pressure up these days and all I really want to say to them is this:

"GTFO of my humanity, you hack cult of (potentially damaging) weirdness even Mulder would disown. And don't clone Tom Cruise on your way out."

Comments

[tencrush]

That's awful. Yuck. But, seriously, you're talking about spirituality and religion here and I think even MENTIONING those things in regard to Scientology is already giving them far too much leeway. Don't even THINK about religion when you think about Scientology, go with your last thought there. It's a dangerous money-grabbing life-destroying CULT.

[misscam.livejournal.com]

Yeah, but at the same time I feel I am being unfair if I totally go that way - Scientology is not that much sillier than what some fairly established religions claim and Tom Cruise is certainly not has harmful as Taliban batshits.

So blah. I guess what it comes down to is that I don't find Taleban or Fred Phelps to represent Islam and Christianity respectively, but with Scientology it's the Whole.Damn.Thing that affronts my brain.

[tencrush]

It's not much siller, no, but RELIGION IS FREE. Seriously.

[misscam.livejournal.com]

Well, the Christian church used to be filthy rich, so taking money for religion is hardly new.

But yeah, Scientology does feel like a business to me, and not one with practices I approve of.

[colorstoobright.livejournal.com]

Oh geez. This isn't the first time something like this has happened as well. So sad. :(

[misscam.livejournal.com]

She was 20 :( So fucked up.

[un-sedentary.livejournal.com]

My general opinion is that if a person commits suicide, no one is ultimately really to blame but their own psychological condition at the time. People overcome huge obstacles every day, at great costs - the enormity of the decision to take one's own life just can't be blamed solely on outside factors (even if it may be what gave her the final push). How many people get bad news every day and don't kill themselves?

From the article, it doesn't even sound like she was a Scientology follower or anything, so I don't know how they could be blamed for her suicide. If she was at such a low point in her life (despite her happy exterior; she couldn't have been that happy if she then committed suicide), anything could have been the final straw.

[misscam.livejournal.com]

People endure shit every day, yeah. But in some cases, outside circumstances can pile so much upon people I'd say that has a very large part and can be at equal blame for a suicide. Human psyche is both strong and very fragile. I wouldn't normally even consider suicide, but right after the rape... I did think it. If I had less support around me, who knows? Sometimes, even normal, well-adjusted people can get such a kick from life they just can't bear it anymore.

From what I understand, she left a note with the 'analysis' Scientology had done of her, which is why the family has done what they now do. She took it hours before she jumped out of the window, and apparently, the analysis was pretty nasty.

[un-sedentary.livejournal.com]

You're right, external circumstances can do it, but I still think suicide has a lot to do with the person making the decision (I'm not saying you have to be crazy or anything to be depressed, or even be depressed, but it seems to me there has to be a fair amount of hopelessness). Humans are fragile - but the survival instinct is pretty strong. I'm so sorry you found yourself in such a terrible situation, but the point is that you didn't do it (and I'm glad you didn't)... the line between thinking about it and actually going through with it is pretty distinct. If anyone who has ever thought of it did it, the world would be a lonely place.

That analysis may have been really nasty, but it can't be the worst thing that can happen to a person. People get rejected and harshly criticised sometimes - you can't please everyone. I think anything could probably have been the last straw for her.

[cedara]

"GTFO of my humanity, you hack cult of (potentially damaging) weirdness even Mulder would disown. And don't clone Tom Cruise on your way out."

*seconds that*

Personally, I think Scientology is as dangerous as Opus Dei. YMMV.

[ppaeps.livejournal.com]

I agree with everything in this post. Just one note I'd like to make, however:

Is it that I just don't count it as religion and more as the vein of Fred Phelps, just using religion as a cover for preying on people?

Isn't that the definition of religion in general? Preying on people? Notice how in addition to "deities" whose existence is - at best - dubious, every religion seems to have brought forth priests. And where you see priests, you see convenient little boxes for people to put money into. Often, you can also find altars dripping with blood and choirboys being molested and women being repressed. Not to mention some other attrocities.

The boxes for the money are always there though.

Priests and internet scammers have a lot in common. They subscribe to the dogma of "one born every minute" and "a fool and his money are easily parted". How come temples are generally such large and magnificent buildings? Who paid for them? Yep.

If you've not read it yet, I highly recommend Hitchens' "God is not Great". Try to forget that the man himself is a bit weird, but the book mentions some very interesting things about priests and the ways in which religion preys on people.

[skybound2]

Someone on my flist once made a remark that went something like 'I can't understand how someone can't believe in God'. I've always been tempted to answer 'I don't understand how someone can believe in God', but that's not entirely true. I understand why someone would want to believe. Oh yeah, that I understand.

My immediate response to this is one of my favorite quotes, as it explains my feelings on the subject better then I ever could: "I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours." --Stephen Roberts

Scientology is fast becoming one dangerous cult of a religion. There is a center in my city that I pass everyday, and I've been half-tempted to do some recon by going in and checking it out. Only I'm afraid that I might lose my temper once I do, so I've avoiding actually going in.

[crusherbevdr.livejournal.com]

I normally just lurk here, but I have to reply to this post.

I agree and understand exactly where you are coming from. You summed up my feelings about religion and spirituality very well. I'd love to believe in some higher power, but I just can't. I've tried.

I believe in the universes and that there are things/beings out there beyond our comprehension. Things that we just don't know about.

Thanks for making this post, Cam. It hit home!

[azaleyes.livejournal.com]

This is so sad :(
Sometimes it seems like religion destroys as many lives as it saves.

[trialia]

So I've come to believe in life and the universe, and that both might have things beyond our capacity for understanding.
Sounds like my faith to me. ;) I don't, at all, believe in deity as any form of anthropomorphic personification, but as something that's inherent to (in?) the world/life/universe in which we exist. In everything, and not immediately quantifiable.

*nods, and wanders off to her Unitarian choir practice* ^_^

[mingsmommy.livejournal.com]

My religion is non-theistic, though I still believe in god...just not a traditional view of god. My husband is an atheist and I had to speak to him about giving our daughter the impression that anyone who believes in a god is an idiot.

I want her to make up her own mind...whether she becomes a Buddhist, an Atheist, a Muslim, a Wiccan or a Christian...that being said, I would probably come unglued if she embraced Scientology. I know that's my prejudice, but, please. PLEASE. It doesn't even make sense. I know a lot of the myths of other religions don't make sense, but they're at least...pretty and make sense within the confines of the myth. Scientology I think was created as a giant joke, a thumbing of the nose at both traditional religion and the tax laws. It has always felt like it was about money to me.

Also, as someone who has been profoundly impacted by someone's suicide, I tend to agree with un_sedentary the person ultimately responsible for a suicide is the person who committed it. Was this horrible? Yes, absolutely. Do we all have a breaking point? Yes, we do. But ultimately we are all accountable for our own actions.

Thank you for a thought provoking post, as usual.

[littlezink.livejournal.com]

No time for a more in-depth response, but I just have to say that you have perfectly summarized many of my feelings about religion and atheism. Over the past few years I've struggled with my question of religion, eventually coming to the conclusion that I'm an atheist(much to my family's dismay). Along with what you've expressed, I also feel very strongly that if I am wrong and a god does exist, I can only hope that not attempting to fake a faith that I didn't believe will be held to my credit.

There is a reason that Scientology is classified as a cult in Germany. That's about all I can say without going into a full rant....

[kippurbird.livejournal.com]

Now, I admit to being a nice Jewish girl, I don't know if I believe in God, but that hasn't stopped me from being happily Jewish. I've always been of the opinion that no matter how crazy someone else's religion might be, you're free to go about and believe it. (Though the Jews for Jesus give me the creeps).

In regards to Scientology, however, their only point seems to be brainwashing people into giving them money. Some people may say that's what all religions do, but -from what I know- Christians actually say that we want you to convert to Christianity and Jews don't convert people unless you come to them saying you want to be Jewish. The Scientologists, however don't say that they're trying to induct you into their religion, they just string you along until oops.. what do you know, you're a member.

A "good" religion shouldn't have to trick people like that, they should be able to stand on their own two feet and let people come to them if they're interested.

And I have no idea if that made any sense.

[distaff-exile.livejournal.com]

*sees red*

Poor, darling Kaja. May she be at peace, wherever she has gone...

[padawanpooh.livejournal.com]

Scientology is a money-grubbing business of evil that preys on people who are at their weakest.

Im a Christian Ex-fundy atheist as I'm certain you know and have some experience of some of the milder peer pressure applied when you're sucked into this stuff.

I have no problems with being a spiritual atheist either: I don't need a god to appreciate the wonders of the universe. What I call the Tao, the energy and starstuff that makes up the universe, is far more beautiful and awe-inspiring than any man-made religion (especially one created by an SF author who said starting a religion was the best way to get rich...)

/gets off soapbox.

[the-wanlorn.livejournal.com]

Jesus. The portion of the internet that has taken on the name Anonymous has its problems, yeah, but every time I read something else like this I get more and more glad that they've brought Scientology to the attention of the internets so that more people know about this shit.

[wintergreen126.livejournal.com]

i never want to have anything to do with it, but i find scientology fascinating in that trainwreck sort of way. i think it's because i don't understand it. so obviously i want to know what the hell is going on in scientology land.

but that's where my issues with the whole thing start. whatever i may think of other religions, they are willing (some far more than others) to share information about their ideas, their beliefs, at least to some extent or another. scientology keeps it all so mysterious; you have to make all sorts of promises, from what i understand, about not sharing stuff once you decide you want to join. religion is partly about believing in something(one(s)), and it's hard to take something like scientology seriously when you're not sure what to believe, if anything, and most of what you know comes via rumorville or angry ex-scientologists. they say they're not a cult, but everything seems to point in that direction. you know what they say,if it looks like a cult, and it smells like a cult...

really, if l.ron hubbard, a hack science fiction writer, wants to come up with a set of ideas or a construct based on his views, fine. if people want sign up and go along, fine. but quit it with the cabalistic nonsense already, and give out some decent nugget of information. because from what i've read it sounds like a want-to-be-big-business overdosed on some nonsensical cult cocktail of doom.

and that in itself is nonsensical, but hopefully you know where i'm going...

thanks for another interesting and thought-provoking post :o) hope you're doing well and have a good one!

[miss-andromache.livejournal.com]

Have you seen Operation Clambake? (http://www.xenu.net/) Aside from the initial cracking up about the URL and how funny some of the stuff is, I went on to be shocked and horrified after using this site for writing an article on cults last year.

I have no doubt that these personality tests are dangerous hack tools because the tactic isn't a new one nor one that's limited to Scientology. (But you probably already knew that)