Wherein Cam gets fed up with Rose versus Martha, but is amused by SFX

[misscam]

LOL SFX. In their recent Doctor Who edition with the top companions, Rose gets this remark under "departure":

Gets stuck in an alternate dimension where people translate Norwegian badly.

BWHAHAHA. Damn straight - pay attention, BBC writers. Next time you want to stick Norwegian in your show, resist the lure of the Babelfish. Heck, I offer my services free of charge.

While we're on the topic, someone in mah LJ poll asked me to write about Donna versus Rose/Martha and my first reaction was pretty much "Oh HELL NO". And you know why?

/rage on

I like Rose. I don't think she's perfect.
I like Martha. I don't think she's perfect.
I like Donna. I don't think she's perfect.

It doesn't really bug me if someone doesn't share any or all of those three because hey, that's what what humanity is - a collection of individuals and none of us are alike. Thus, we can't like exactly the same things. Normally, it's fun to compare and see how different perception can be.

But the ongoing strong-on-grudgery back and forth between some Rose and Martha fans makes me want to throw things. ARGH, people, ARGH. Any sane discussion about stronger/weaker points and characterisation for either is now lost in partly personal fights and fandom wanking by anonymice. I think I saw red somewhere between reading the back and forth on classism and calling Rose a slut because she slept with two guys. It's gone so ugly I feel bad liking either, because there's been bullshit on all sides by now. Why the eff do female characters get so much hate from female fans in such ugly ways? Seen it in so many fandoms now - and double RAWR on anyone who uses a woman's sexuality as a reason to bash her. Newsflash! Women are allowed to have a sexuality. No, actually, that's wrong. Women don't fucking need permission to have a sexuality.

Words like 'slut', 'whore' or any of those bullshit labels shuld just be banned from any discussion of female characters ever.

I derailed there for a moment because using sex against women has bugged me since three fandoms ago, oops. Anyway, my general (fumbled) point is this - this Rose versus Martha saga has gotten to a point where I feel it's gone vendetta. It's gotten personal, it's gotten grudgery, stupid, repetitive and probably alianating a lot of people who aren't on the barricades. It's not so much about the characters anymore either, it's about fans of them going at each other. Quite frankly, it's making me not want to watch the show at times.

So yeah, I'm just gonna stay right here, liking all three. YA FUCKING RLY.

/rage off

I'm flocking this the moment anyone starts wank attempts because we've had enough of that already, thanks.

*wanders off to write on BSG fic*

Comments

Well said.

[sessifet25.livejournal.com]

Want to join me on my wall? It's nice and high, plenty of space and there's enough long implements you can use to keep the wankers away (some of them even have sharp bits).

I'm getting fed up with the discussions (ahem) as well. I liked all three for their own reasons and I just don't see the reason for all the hate being flung hither and yon. Mention this anywhere and you get looked at like you've just said you like to sodomise sheep with a purple strap-on.

(I will admit to liking Donna because it looks like she'll be a companion and not a hanger-on :))

Re: Well said.

[misscam.livejournal.com]

Sure, if I can bring my bar. :P

I think part of the problem is that it's become a with us or against us attitude on some of this. It's not uncommon when people get passionate, it's just often unfortunate. Blah.

But I could've done without that sheep image, ow :P

Re: Well said.

[smtfhw.livejournal.com]

Want to join me on my wall? It's nice and high, plenty of space and there's enough long implements you can use to keep the wankers away (some of them even have sharp bits).

Got room for me too?

[robshearman.livejournal.com]

Thank God for you.

That is all.

[misscam.livejournal.com]

Heh, thanks, I think. I just get really, really, really tired of the shape slagging off often takes.

Though I also mean it about the BBC writers. *stern glance* No bad Norwegain on my watch!

[trialia]

*wanders off to write on BSG fic*
*happy squeak*

[misscam.livejournal.com]

:P Trying my best, though the cat and football is awefully distracting. Bad them.

[elen-ancalima.livejournal.com]

WORD!

When I start feeling bad for liking a character something's gone wrong ...

[misscam.livejournal.com]

Yesh. It's even at the point where it doesn't matter who started it, because everyone is keeping at it.

[starletfallen.livejournal.com]

AMEN!

I am a DIEHARD Rosefen. She is my darling, I am extremely protective of her. But I ADORE Martha, because she's strong in ways Rose wasn't, and she's capable and smart and can handle herself, even with the Doctor.

Aaaaaaand then Donna came along and usurped Rose as my all-time favorite Who character, but that's just because she is ALL KINDS OF AWESOME.



...That is all.

Ace is not amused by the batchippers and the Marthafen equivalent.

[misscam.livejournal.com]

I recently got all into kickass Laura Roslin and man, I'm feeling love for female characters kicking ass these days. Bring more on!

It just makes me rather sad that women so often tear women down :(

[elrina753.livejournal.com]

I found myself nodding and agreeing throughout your entire Rose/Martha rant thing...

I've enjoyed each companion on the new series and I don't understand how someone can watch a show, let alone say they love it when they're harboring such a grudge against a character (and the writers behind a show) simply because its not going the way they want. Truly mind-boggling.

There are reasons I tend to avoid the Who fandom (they love to bring the crazy).

[misscam.livejournal.com]

The bitterness towards Rowling by some die-hard HP fans quite baffled me too. But I think it is, as someone told me, this build of expectation and then not getting what you expect, coupled with emotional investement... Yeah, it's like a love affair with a bad break-up, I think.

[neadods.livejournal.com]

Next time you want to stick Norwegian in your show, resist the lure of the Babelfish. Heck, I offer my services free of charge.

I thought that *was* you!

It's gone so ugly I feel bad liking either, because there's been bullshit on all sides by now.

*sigh* Yes. With an added sauce of feeling like I'm betraying the cause of Martha by liking Donna as much as I do. THIS ISN'T HIGHLANDER! By classic "companion" standards, the Doctor's already up to companion #6 anyway, as Jack, Mickey, and Jackie *also* count!


ETA & totally OT: I'm going to have the "Dos and Don'ts of Conventions" piece done by the end of next week; would you like to take a look at it before it goes up?

[misscam.livejournal.com]

Haha, no. You'd think, but nope!

I got some flak from one person for liking Martha early on. I was 'betraying' the ship or some such. *facepalm*, seriously. And now I like Donna too, and loads of the classic Who characters have been to my liking too. I have some preferences here and there, but seriously, this isn't a case where you must hate A if you love B. You can appreciate both for different reasons, sheesh.

Sure, I wouldn't mind a peek.

[rivrea.livejournal.com]

Even though I (thankfully) didn't see any of the latest outbursts of character-bashing and companion hatred in Who fandom, I agree with everything you say. I do like Rose and Martha and Donna (and Sarah and Romana I and Romana II and Ace and Charley...), all for slightly different reasons, and the "my companion is better than your companion" game makes me incredibly frustrated. As does bashing of female characters in general.

Yes, I do understand that one can't take to every female character onscreen, and some are really not particularly well-written. One can express criticism in a reasonable manner, though. But when it descends to the level of female fans referring to female characters as 'bitches' or 'sluts' or what not, I'm always tempted to reply with a heart-felt "YOU MAKE BABY JESUS EMMELINE PANKHURST CRY!"

In conclusion: Girls rock, and women are awesome. Even more so if they travel by TARDIS.

[honorh.livejournal.com]

Thank you. I never bonded with Martha, which is a pity because I'd like to like her more, but I feel no need to bash her. She had a lot of good qualities. Half the fandom seems to think she was a whiny bitch whom the Doctor should've kicked off the TARDIS at the first opportunity; the other half seems to think the Doctor treated poor Saint Martha like something he might step in and needs to prostrate himself at her feet whens she comes back. It's possible to believe they both made mistakes, and that each was good for the other in many ways. Or is that just my Crazy talking again?

As for Rose and Donna, I adore Rose, absolutely love her, but Donna will probably end up my favorite companion before long. I may 'ship Rose/Doctor, but Donna? I want to be her when I grow up. Seriously. I think Rose is the girl I wish I had been--smart, tough, brave enough to shake up her whole life and grab onto something better. Donna's who I'd like to become--smart, tough, brave enough to shake up her whole life and grab onto something better.

New Who women rock.

[crackpig.livejournal.com]

Aye, but all three together are no as good as Ace was!

[ladymako71.livejournal.com]

You know it's bad when you are outcast for liking one over the other. And I won't lie...as hot-blooded as I am, I let myself get swept up in the stupid. I have since come to my senses and decided to drop the whole thing. Too late, but meh...let them name me in every 'this one is a hater!' list that comes up. I fucked up, I admit it. Hell I'll be the first to say it.

And just as bad as the 'us verses them' front in the whole mess can be... Ganging up on each other in your own camp, so to speak, is so much worse. Like you said about getting crap for betraying the ship. Wha? I gave it up when it got that out of hand. I had my own incident where I was told that I really should remove 'so and so' from my flist because they are a Rose fan. The fu say wha? Since when does someone have the right to tell me, who I can be friends with online?

The abject loathing of character X because they're not character Y, thing pisses me off too, because it flows over into RL, where the actor/ess portraying whatever character is just as hated. For no real reason other than a role they played on a television show.

I won't even go into the different epitaphs used in the ongoing stupidity either. I finished pre-school 3 decades ago. I refuse to fall back to that shite.

[crackpig.livejournal.com]

You know, they oughta just get the Queen to ask the bloke 63rd in line to the British throne. He surely knows his norwegian pretty well.

[padawanpooh.livejournal.com]

I just noticed there are a couple of Arthurs on that list...can we have one of them next? I just want to say my country is ruled by a King Arthur (again?)

[denara.livejournal.com]

The Rose/Martha epic fighting made me start to absolutely hate the show last summer, though my love for Time Crash brought me back. Pardon the language, but now I've just decided to just say fuck them all. The rabid Rose haters can die a miserable death in the corner with all the rabid Martha haters and the rest of us can go back to enjoying why we all came here in the first place... and for once have constructive discussions on the characters' good and bad points without it all devolving to adolescent name calling.

Though I'm thinking Donna may be the one bridging the gap for us all. I've seen so many comments of the "Rose/Martha/etc I will always love you, but Donna's about 1 episode from being my favorite companion" variety.

[settiai]

So yeah, I'm just gonna stay right here, liking all three.

*points to header in personal LJ*

Need I say more?

[canadian-kazz.livejournal.com]

Sorry, I didn't mean to pervoke the rage of misscam. *hides*

[teenwitch77.livejournal.com]

Okay, making me glad I'm not involved in the Doctor Who fandom at all.

It's interesting (and annoying) how fandom can really influence your thinking about a show. I mean I don't even consider these things because I never read about them - I just like Rose, I like Martha, I like Donna. But then in the other fandoms I'm involved in I get these sorts of debates.

Oh fandom.

[wintergreen126.livejournal.com]

oh wow. i had NO idea any of that was going on. my involvement in fandom, for the most part, begins and ends with my flist. so i'm sort of ignorant to all these happenings. if it's gotten that bad, then you're probably right: it's personal. and that's seriously scary wank...

is the wank shelter open and taking requests per chance?

yay for BSG fic! i can't wait to see what you're writing :o)

have a (hopefully) wank-free weekend!

[jessickuh.livejournal.com]

Bwah. Ha. HA.

I thought it said "Cam is amused by SEX."

[misscam.livejournal.com]

Hey, sex can be very silly!

[elvenpiratelady.livejournal.com]

I agree - ship who you want to ship, just keep them in character, kthnxbai. This is exactly the reason why I steer clear of the Who fandom in general.

[fondued-jicama.livejournal.com]

I would like to see what would happen if they just ditched girls altogether and got the Doctor a male companion instead.

Except nah, people would still have hate.

--

I look at it and I think, 'yes, but what about older companions? They're cool too.' Mreh.

[everysecondtues.livejournal.com]

I like Rose. I don't think she's perfect.
I like Martha. I don't think she's perfect.
I like Donna. I don't think she's perfect.
Word.

There's a reason I've been avoiding Doctor Who meta, debate, and general wankery.