You called your RPG what now?

[misscam]

I am running out of icons for all the stupid of late.

I give you Kristallnacht, the Harry Potter RPG.

Says the FAQ:

Is this really the best choice of names for your game?

We realize some people might look at the name and think, "Do they realize they just named their game after a horrific event in World War II?" And yes, we do, and were well aware of it when we named the game. We were drawing parallels between Grindelwald's actions and those in World War II. As you may notice, a few of the important events in our history even occur on the same dates as the historical events, and this was not by accident. Don't worry, we did our research, and we didn't just think, "Man, that sounds like a cool name, and I do like broken glass!" If you find it offensive at all, then we're really sorry. Like, really really. That wasn't our intent and we're really actually good people, I swear.

...

Okay, historical facts can sometimes be used in fiction to do effect, and might even be a teaching tool. I'll grant that, but when you start telling people who react to the name they're EXTREMISTS, that leeway kinda went flying a bit. And oh God, the banner.

BAD IDEA BAD IDEA.

This is going to end so very ugly, innit?

ETA: Special fail! The Christians churches have fought against the point of Harry Potter and it's connection to magic. It's all a matter of opinion and we're sorry that it offends you.

*facepalm* Where's a 'the point - your head' macro when you need it?

ETA the sequel: I'm not a mod, but I support the mods and their decision for the name fully, because unlike so many others I am not going to dwell on the past and harbor ill feelings towards what happened. It's been nearly 70 years.

...

IT'S NOT YOUR PLACE TO DECIDE OMG.

Comments

[nostalgia-lj.livejournal.com]

Damn and there I was going to make a Doctor/Master RPG called Tiananmen Square.

[misscam.livejournal.com]

The Chinese version or the one that actually happened?

[nostalgia-lj.livejournal.com]

That was going to be the Confusing Ambiguity. It's the new black! The new slash! The new everything!

[misscam.livejournal.com]

The new run-out-of-fandom-by-pitchforks?

[nostalgia-lj.livejournal.com]

Only EXTREMISTS would say something like that.

[misscam.livejournal.com]

Now you're gonna tell me you have Chinese friends too, right? Can't have the moral highground with friends of the potentially offended group, after all!

I wonder if EXTREMIST comes with a uniform?

[kosmickway.livejournal.com]

OMG, WTF?!

My class and I just finished up a unit on the Holocaust and judging by some of their reactions, I'm afraid we're raising generations of people who are not tolerant enough of the griefs and hurts felt by others who went through hellish experiences. By raising a generation who feel that they are entitled to express their feelings however they choose but then also expect those feelings to be agreed with and praised simply becasue they have been expressed-- well, we're REALLY asking for trouble.

This entitled generation of kids ... *shudder* scary.

[misscam.livejournal.com]

The reactions by one of the defenders of that RPG rather screamed 'teenager' to me, I have to admit. It's like, yeah, you have a right to opinionate away all you want, and people have a right to tell you you're being fucking offensive too. Right to free speech doesn't mean you're free from consequences of what you're saying.

And holocaust, holocaust needs some tact to deal with, sheesh. It doesn't take a genius to see that hello, genocide you should maybe be a bit careful what you use for.

Sigh.

[klose.livejournal.com]

Sorry, I just wanted to cut in with a big WORD - 'what an entitlement complex' was my exact reaction. I don't think they realise the true gravity attached to 'Kristallnacht'. I read that moderator note and what strikes me the most is the lack of awareness or empathy - and if they did their research as they say they did... well, it makes me a little ill.

But it's good to see this issue being brought to the open - someone on my f-list mentioned it a few weeks ago, but that was around the end of term and midst lots of mini-catastrophes and going away for a few days, I didn't keep up with it and simply forgot about it. Pah.)

[aka-paloma.livejournal.com]

I should start a countdown to see how long this takes to hit Fandom_Wank. I think that's a new record for Godwin's Law. Or, least, some form of it surely?

[aka-paloma.livejournal.com]

On the other hand, there is so much unfunny there, I don't think this can be wanked.

[misscam.livejournal.com]

That's why it's on the unfunnybusiness comm.

[aka-paloma.livejournal.com]

I hadn't noticed that the link was to a JournalFen comm. I thought it was strictly in InsaneJournal-land so I offer a big ole facepalm that ends in a headdesk. My bad.

[misscam.livejournal.com]

Heh, np. I just linked to it because it had links to various reactions and it saved me putting them all up. I am lazy like that. Peeking now, I see it made it to one wank comm.

[cincoflex.livejournal.com]

I'm dumbfounded at this--the utter gall; the chutzpah of this is overwhelming.

[misscam.livejournal.com]

I sat and just stared at it for ten minutes. Then I started reading the comments and it hurt even more. There's even the 'but I have Jewish friends!' argument.

Fail. Oh man, FAIL.

Make historical parallels in your stuff can be of literary worth - co-opting names of severe historical shit? Nooooo.

[mercuriazs.livejournal.com]

It's kind of sad how much faith I have in humanity, because I saw the mods' FAQ blurb and automatically assumed that it was going to be a thoughtful and sensitive examination of how people can systematically dehumanize other groups of people with illustrative and chilling historical parallels. Because how else would you do it, right? How else could you even begin to talk about this subject matter?



... That's clearly not exactly why these people are in it.

Ugh. So not in the mood for another one of these discussions in fandom. Is this Offend a Historically Disadvantaged Group Month or something?

[misscam.livejournal.com]

See my latest edit. Yeah, I'm gonna say that sort of maturity, we're not facing here.

ARGH.

[celebestel.livejournal.com]

. . . oh wow. That's the point where ignorance becomes despicable.

I promise not all Mormons are this much fail.

;_;

[huinesoron.livejournal.com]

[Screeches to a halt] Oh stars, I hadn't come across /that/ little factoid. And yes, it makes me comment. But not on that. :P

Actually, my point/question is: when does using names of historical events of this calibre become acceptible? That is, after how long? I mean, everyone's agreeing that this is way too soon for anything Holocaust related, but would it ever be acceptible? To grab an example from Wikipedia's list of massacres, would it be okay to call a story/RP 'Jamestown Massacre'? Or 'St. Brice's Day'? Going even further back, how about 'Sack of Jerusalem'? 'Pillaging Carthage'? And I know I'm not picking the best examples (those early two are the ends of a rebellion and a war, respectively), but I think the point is getting made. How long should people wait? I'm curious, and don't know the answer myself.

(All that being said... 'Kristallnacht' is such a pretty word. Why are all the pretty words attached to such evil things?)

[kunenk.livejournal.com]

*nods and grimaces* It'd be nice to use it, but with its attachments…

[belegcuthalion.livejournal.com]

Silly kids. *snorts* Aside from the parralels - and yes, they are there indeed, especially in the Ministry scenes in Deathly Hallows - the choice of title is more than unfortunate. Grow up, I say.

[misscam.livejournal.com]

There's drawing historical parallels and there's actually co-opting a tragedy, and while I am usually okay with the first (depends what parallels you draw, of course) the latter seems to be getting my back up massively. There's just something about how the first is making a statement that human behaviour can repeat itself and the second is much more using a horrific example for shock value to me.

I don't know, maybe I'm off...

[belegcuthalion.livejournal.com]

You're not. What they do is playing with fire. Idiots.

[dune-drd.livejournal.com]

Which is even more WTF when you know that Germans dissuade people to use the word, as it sounds too... nice ('just some smashed windows' oh yeah) for something so horrible *facepalms*

[neadods.livejournal.com]

I didn't know that.

[dune-drd.livejournal.com]

Official term is 'Pogromnacht'. Kristallnacht isn't really frowned upon, but it sounds just too nice.

[neadods.livejournal.com]

Ah. That makes sense.

[misscam.livejournal.com]

Yeah - in reality, there was quite a lot of destruction going on. Shops had their windows broken sure enough, but synagogs were wholly torched and people were murdered. The name makes it sound a bit like petty vandalism, I suppose, when really it was so much, much more.

[dune-drd.livejournal.com]

Which is why the official term is Progromnacht by now, less twinkling, more burning... some people just never learn.

[sinneahtes.livejournal.com]

If you find it offensive at all, then we're really sorry. Like, really really. That wasn't our intent and we're really actually good people, I swear.

Yeah, I can totally tell.

I am not going to dwell on the past and harbor ill feelings towards what happened

Oh, such strength! I am totally in awe. All "really actually good people" should have this attitude.

And I feel so good that someone can look at a horrific event (that centuries of bigotry--bigotry that still isn't gone even today--had a hand in) and "not harbor ill feelings towards what happened."

[mademoisellenon.livejournal.com]

I'm really annoyed her "name" is marieantoinette. That is really bothering me.

- You know what a genocide is, don't you?
- Yes, I'm quite aware what Genocide is. Thank you. Feel embarrassed for yourself for being so judgmental.
- Please stop being so judgmental about people's judgmentalism.

It's not funny. It's tragic, but that made me...kinda...smirk.

[honorh.livejournal.com]

Gee, I guess this scuppers my plans for a DW RPG called "Hiroshima" . . .

It's stuff like this that gives me uncontrollable mental images of repeatedly smacking these idiots across the face (forehand, backhand, repeat as necessary) until the Get A Clue.

[idea-of-sarcasm.livejournal.com]

Sorry about jumping in, but that's truly wrong. Again, not so much because it was used, as it can be done appropriately with the right intent and people (though I can't say I agree with it in their case), but the defense of it. I waded through the thread a little bit, and I think that last comment you linked to still stands out as the worst. About 'not dwelling on the past', which I find disturbing on many levels. I think *everyone* wishes that one chick had kept her mouth shut, as it probably would have stopped this from escalating as it did.

What's that quote? Oh yeah. "Better to be thought a fool then open your mouth and remove all doubt."

The mods have actually changed the name of the game now - to 'hexennacht'. The link to the comment of the one mod is here.

I was going to make a comment on the insanity of fandom, but I think it's more *people* in this case. Fandom or not, there are people who just don't get things.

[misscam.livejournal.com]

Feel free to jump in whenever - this is an open LJ. Opinionate away on any and all!

And yeah, that one chick should really have just learned the fine art of STFU. She just made it lik six gazillion times worse. It is actually quite often friends trying to defend those who've been critisized who just go way to far. It's good to want to defend your friends, but maybe sometimes offering silent and private support is the way. Oi.

I saw the renaming when I woke up this morning - and what do you know, a name that keeps the obvious allusion to the Nazi prececution without actually co-opting. One-hand clap.

[kosmickway.livejournal.com]

Oh God, this chick lives in Queen Creek, just an hour up the road from Phoenix. I'm hanging my head in mortification. Shows the failure of the AZ educational system, dunnit?

[kippurbird.livejournal.com]

Fascinating. We're doing a Holocaust memorial week over at the School I work at. (The American Jewish University). I should go over there right now and tell them that they don't need to do it. And that the survivors that are coming that they should be over it by now.

I feel so much better now!

[rivrea.livejournal.com]

I think they've changed the name to "Hexennacht" (witches' night) by now. Thank goodness.

I swear I was getting sick to my stomach when I saw your post. I wasn't even that happy about the implicit Nazi/Holocaust/WWII parallels in the Harry Potter series, either, because I am very wary of these historical events being used again and again to confer a more profound meaning to fictional world #45739. But being so brazen and blatant as to take the term Kristallnacht itself to 'spice up' your RPG and make it seem ... I don't know, more 'tragical' or something, is another level of stupidity.

Quite apart from the fact that Kristallnacht, as dune_drd already pointed out, is the term used by the NS regime itself, who deliberately took a harmless and pretty word to mock the victims of their pogrom.

[misscam.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I too think Nazi parallels get way overdone sometimes, because the Nazi regime itself is a bit of an historical... Hmmm... Oddity? Many of the vile ideas it had, not exactly new. But the regime and the way it was done is unique in so many ways I think parallels can often miss their mark.

/my thoughts on Nazism

Either way, there's failing a bit on historical analysis, and there's just Being Dumb. I hadn't thought about the last point, but when it was mentioned, I remembered that is actually true and adds a new level of fail.