Doctor Who finale reaction, wherein Cam is divided on her own.

[misscam]

So, what did I think of the Doctor Who finale?

Honestly, I don't know.

First things first - Donna. Donna is awesome and love and oh, how I wish she'd had a season just for her own. She really didn't get enough, but then, neither did Martha. I don't know, I just have liked more. Maybe the ending wouldn't have been so GARGH then. Someone please write a fic where her memories start leaking through anyway, y/y? It was her episode this, but it wasn't enough her series. Does that make sense?

Second things second, the Doctor and Rose. Some people loved it, some hated it, and divided opinions among the shippers too. And I'm a bit divided myself. It felt insanely fanfic and a bit lame, but also deliciously fucked-up and that got my brain going plenty. I like to write things that are complicated. Plenty of potential there for sure. It made me write Doctor Who when I haven't even felt one inkling to in ages. So I don't know, I like the ending as a writer and am unsure as a viewer? And on a totally shallow note, it's nice to see snogging, because !lo, David Tennant it hot snogging.

Third things third, quite a few characters got short-changed because it was companion!fest. I was a bit sad at that. But Sarah Jane is so awesome and I think I kinda ship her and now alone!Ten a fair bit. I really liked them in School Reunion too. Maybe I should start watching SJA already, because I'm really liking Sarah Jane. I wish she and Harriet Jones and Laura Roslin could make some club of mature women kicking ass.

Fourth things fourth, WTF the plot and useless Daleks. Even Pinky and the Brain do better than you. I still love you, Daleks, but you're like the intergalactic joke of worlduniverse domination plans. However did the Time Lords die to you?

Fifth things fifth - Doctor, you are a bit of an emo git. Probably as human too.

Other notes:
- Martha and Mickey in Torchwood? Oh my.
- Jackie is made of awesome and would also pop by the club.
- The TARDIS piloted as it should be = awesome.
- That was a cheap way out of regeneration, even if it had a plot point.
- They kept the bad Norwegian. FOR SHAME. But Norway is no a defining part of the Doctor/Rose relationship and that totally amuses me. Shut up, I know I'm a sad Norwegian.

In summary: I can't decide if I hate it, love it or is indifferent, thus managing to be supremely divided on my own. I'm going to get a headache from trying to figure it out. And though I do feel a bit like writing Who stuff again and probably will some more, it feels fairly definite that my fannish heart has been claimed by Battlestar Galactica now. Sorry, Who. We can still be friends.

ETA: I'll of course still watch it and fan over it. I'm just more interested in BSG as it is, but hey, my brain got space for many fannish inklings.

ETA the second: time_and_chips did actually stay fairly sane through it, though it is now buzzing with activity. I sense I'll have more modding work for a while.

Comments

[denorios.livejournal.com]

I can't decide either. Parts I loved and parts I hated, and I'm so glad nobody died, but oh, it's still not really happy either. Rose has a Doctor but he's not the same and the Doctor's still alone and Donna isn't dead but oh, she's lost everything, everything she's seen and done, all the growth she'd had. *sniffs* It's so desperately sad.

[misscam.livejournal.com]

I know. It's confusing and Donna breaks my heart. She was awesome and now she'll never know why.

I really, really didn't like that.

*clings to BSG*

[jocelyncs.livejournal.com]

I'm still holding out hope that they'll revisit Donna in the future. They spent enough time leading up to the Rose reunion, so we know it can be a viable plot device. After all, considering everything the Doctor has done (without erasing the records this time!) what are the odds that NOTHING will trigger Donna's memories?

I can dream.

[lotus79.livejournal.com]

See, you at least have a sense of loyalty. I am a fickle fan who can only like one thing at a time, it seems. DW at the moment is over for me, as evidenced by me still not feeling the slightest urge to watch the last 5 eps.

But you could write me a crossover fic?

[misscam.livejournal.com]

I have a big brain with room for more than one fandom :P I'll still watch and enjoy Doctor Who, but BSG is where my main interest is at the moment. I just multi-fan.

I already did Doctor Who-BSG crossover fic!

[lotus79.livejournal.com]

Are you saying I don't have a big brain, hmm? I need the rest of the room in mine for a million random things, you know.

And you did? I don't remember it...

[misscam.livejournal.com]

So do I! I got work and life and WoW in there too, you know.

So, since our brain are the same size, I must just be better at using the space I have :P

I did too - Life Enough. You hurt my feelings now, you meanie.

[lotus79.livejournal.com]

You probably wrote it before I got into BSG.

And a good 1/3rd of my brain has been filled with angst and stress lately, so that probably explains it.

*adds fic to read list right after one I am on now*

[sinneahtes.livejournal.com]

Heh, on Clone Doctor and Rose, it came across to me like the Doctor was saying, "I don't want another genocidal Doctor in my universe. You take him!" And the Doctor advertising, "He's only got one heart and he'll grow old with you!" was just... weird. I'm wondering how different the scene might have felt if, rather than the "real" Doctor making the announcement, the clone Doctor would have taken the initiative (or at least looked like it was entirely his idea and decision).

Sarah Jane is indeed awesome.

[drakyndra.livejournal.com]

You have the sympathies of the lifeonmartha mods who are currently all thankful we aren't moderating any Rose or Donna comms right now.

[zinke.livejournal.com]

I am similarly conflicted about the episode. I really liked the companion-fest aspect, especially everyone working to pilot the TARDIS together. Yay Ten's family! But Donna's having all of those memories taken away from her was cruel, as was the 'resolution' of the Ten/Rose arc. Rose is left with a reasonable facsimile of her Doctor, and Brown!Ten is left, once again, with nothing but an empty TARDIS and centuries of self-loathing to keep him company. It just doesn't sit quite right with me.

I may have to go and watch some series 2 today to recover.

[padawanpooh.livejournal.com]

Doctor!Donna was absolutely wonderful and some of the Companion interactions had my fannish heart all a-squee, but RTD distorted his Mary-Sue to a ridiculous degree, and Donna's exit was just horrible :-( I'm grateful that RTD got Who back on our screens but I still only think his writing was good during S1.

I have to agree, for sheer plotting awesomeness, BSG is currently winning.

[misscam.livejournal.com]

Depends how the rest of series four goes for BSG of course, but yeah, I feel the story is more consistent and plotted there. Plus, Adama and Roslin feels more awesome to me than Doctor and Rose now. Oops me.

[mademoisellenon.livejournal.com]

Series finale or season finale?

Hmmm, perhaps I ought to start watching again.

[starletfallen.livejournal.com]

In the UK, a season is called a series. And a series is... just a show, I guess. XD

It's rubbed off on me, I call it a series finale as well

[mademoisellenon.livejournal.com]

Haha, thanks. At one point I knew the difference as well.

Good, so Cam and the rest have a whole other season/series to wait for :P

[starletfallen.livejournal.com]

Next year has... a few specials. And then a new series in 2010.

[mademoisellenon.livejournal.com]

Aaaaaaaah!! Hence all the drama. It's all clear now. Understood, thank you :)

[misscam.livejournal.com]

Yeah, we got a bit of a gap in the Doctor Who viewing coming up. I'm not sure if this is a good or bad thing.

[starletfallen.livejournal.com]

Someone please write a fic where her memories start leaking through anyway, y/y?

See, if she was a Time Lady and she opened her fob watch... *clings to pet theory*

Anyway, no WAY the Doctor hid them well enough. He's not that good. He really isn't.

[phdelicious.livejournal.com]

Plus he didn't tell Jack or Sarah Jane (or anyone else) what he was doing. So what happens if they ever bump into her again?

[starletfallen.livejournal.com]

EXACTLY!

Seriously. I will FIND a way to make it work without burning up her mind.

[misscam.livejournal.com]

Yes please.

[word-smuggler.livejournal.com]

Someone somewhere (ffutures on honorh's LJ) suggested downloading a backup of her memories from the Big Frakking Library's hard drive. Now that's an tune one might dance to...

[ice-feather.livejournal.com]

" It felt insanely fanfic"

It really did, to the point where I was seriously going wtf???? throughout the scene. I was gobsmacked...and I'm starting to come around to the idea that the concept of Clone!Ten and Clone!Ten/Rose could have actually been quite alright if Rusty was a better writer. He really needs someone on the team with enough balls to point out to him the things that don't quite work and need a bit more polish in his scripts.

Martha and Mickey in Torchwood fills me with dread even though I love them both in Who. As much as I love Freema,Torchwood became the Martha Jones Show during her stint in series two and Mickey is fab in Who but I really can't see him fitting in in Torchwood, especially if he's going to be a Tosh replacement. I'm hoping the rumours that their parts in the show will just be for the special five episodes and then we'll get real newbies. Because for a show that claims it's "adult" Torchwood is pretty kiddie-fied already and it worries me what Martha and Mickey could do to it.

[misscam.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I kinda like the idea of human!Doctor and Rose in fanfic, just because it would have so many issues to cover. But in the show, just from a viewer's point of view, I'm not sure how I feel about it.

I don't watch Torchwood, so can't really say on Mickey and Martha in it. I'd totally watch them be an awesome team on their own, though.

[bex245.livejournal.com]

Well I felt totally fine about it because I guess I didn't really think about it that hard and now I fell kinda sad and angry. LMAO.

Initially I thought Rose getting her own human!Doctor was really cute. And yay for kissing!! XD But, I kinda see what you mean about that being a little... weird. lol.

I was just upset that Donna was gonna be in it anymore because HAI AWESOME!! but now, realising that she's never going to know how amazing she was and all those things she did and how she saved the godsdammed universe makes me really sad and angry. =/

Sarah Jane is a fucking legend, it's true. XD
I wish she and Harriet Jones and Laura Roslin could make some club of mature women kicking ass.
OMG!! Surely the world would implode from all the awesome?! :P

Oh, show, how you confuse me... *cries*

[misscam.livejournal.com]

'A little weird' is only the start. But I like that a bit, at least in the part of my brain that thinks about fanfic, heh. It is still kinda fucked-up when thinking about it too much. The kissing was hot, though.

I don't know, it's confusing in mah braine.

If the world imploded from taht club, it would be a good implode. Because HAI, club of awesome!

[wintergreen126.livejournal.com]

quite a few characters got short-changed because it was companion!fest.

very true, and they each have their own special history with the doctor that didn't get the justice it deserved.

I'm really liking Sarah Jane. I wish she and Harriet Jones and Laura Roslin could make some club of mature women kicking ass.

YES. (psst... that would make for some awesome fic ;o) )

They kept the bad Norwegian.

seriously? as soon as they said the name again, i was thinking that i'd have to find out from you if they'd bothered to fix it.

my initial reaction to the episode was a positive one, and i know there is a gap or two or some things that kind of annoyed me, but i don't want to dwell on that and ruin the fact that right now i llove it. i want to stay liking it, you know? too many times i've enjoyed something only to have my enjoyment decrease as i think about it more and more.

bsg! i love who, but i love, love, love that bsg has the freedom to visit the more adult and dark and complicated places that doctor who can't.
plus, i was sucked into bsg first. i discovered dw through my friend's list.

here's hoping that time and chips stays relatively sane. have a great week :o)

[misscam.livejournal.com]

Don't give me fic ideas, I have enough to do :P

Nah, they didn't fix the bad Norwegian. I guess having used it once, that would get silly. But still, I was miffed. Hmpf.

I was into DW before BSG, but yeah, BSG can be a lot more emotionally complicated. And also depressing. I like that, but it's not to everyone's taste still.

[phdelicious.livejournal.com]

This whole clone/human/whatever Doctor thing really puts me in mind of BSG. They're trying really hard to show how one 6 or one 8 is different from all the others even if they share memories and I've accepted that premise which makes it really hard for me to accept the whole JE ending with the "he's me, but he needs you more" BS.

Plus the whole Donna thing on top of it all just kills me.

[misscam.livejournal.com]

Ye, I was thinking about BSG as I watched the scene as well. Specifically "The Hub" episode where one of the Eights had accessed Athena's memories and Helo was all weirded out. It did really make an interesting point that having the memories of a person doesn't necessarily make you the same.

But I dunno, I still think human!Doctor and Rose would have a chance at something, it just would be rather complicated and weird and interesting to write.

[phdelicious.livejournal.com]

Exactly. I'm having trouble reconciling the fact that I've accepted the BSG thesis that memories do not make the (wo)man with the Doctor's assertion that the clone is the same person. But he's seems to be acceptionally NOT the same - he's Doctor-Donna.

It's not that I don't think they'd have a chance at building something, just that RTD shouldn't have tried to say he was the same person.

[(Anonymous)]

The first femslash featuring Martha and the German woman has been written, and destroyed the last of my sanity.

[crackpig.livejournal.com]

guh? Why did that post as anonymous?

[idea-of-sarcasm.livejournal.com]

Ha! I just have to say, that pretty much echoes what I felt about the series finale - unable to decide what I feel about it. Even the parts I thought I liked, I'm not *sure* I actually liked them.

And I'll second the Doctor being an emo git - but at least there was no emo!Jesus!Doctor like last year.

[longtimegone]

God, it is really like we share a brain. I have yet to type up my thoughts, since I had company this weekend (but it was AWESOME to have someone to watch the finale with) so I've had some time to process, but omg I am so conflicted.

My short version reaction is that the episode was incredible overall, with some plot suckage, and I am heartbroken for both Donna and Rose.

[misscam.livejournal.com]

Brain!twin syndrome strikes again, huh?

Yeah, I'll give that to the episode - it broke hearts all over. I think Donna was worse to me than Rose. Rose could make something off what she got, I think, even if it would be weird and complicated. Donna lost some amazing character growth, and it just killed me.

[sliven.livejournal.com]

In the faraway corner that is my mind, Donna somehow manages to meet up with stammering guy and live happily ever after. Yes, I know he's from another time and planet, but hey, weirder things have happened. It is, for example, highly unlikely that the Doctor's daughter will run across stammer-boy and fulfill his wishes by getting him a ride to present day London. Someone should write a fic on that. Probably someone not me, though.

I'll miss Donna.

[butterfliedgsr.livejournal.com]

I so agree, I can't decide how I feel. I felt that the whole saving-the-earth/universe was over far too quickly compared to the other finales, and although that was nercessary because of the sheer number of people to say goodbye to, it just didn't grab me. I felt sooo sorry for Donna-- she saves everybody, and then has to go backto who she was? Not fair AT ALL. Especially because she was just awesome. There wasn't enough of Martha, or Sarah Jane, or Torchwood, but then, I kind of think they tried to include too much in too short a time. Jackie was perfect! When he said she couldn't fly the TARDIS--- :D And from a shipper point of view, I'm mixed. Good that Rose gets *a* Doctor, but not *the* Doctor, and we have to see poor Ten be all alone. However, I really think that was the best way they could have ended it, and it least we got a kiss, so..... All in all, a really sad episode.

[misscam.livejournal.com]

Nothing really was fair about that episode - which is a bit like how life usually is, but still.

[huinesoron.livejournal.com]

They kept the bad Norwegian. FOR SHAME.

But wasn't the German (Doctor Dances) and Welsh (Boom Town) bad as well? To be honest -- did you /expect/ Time-Vortex'd!Rose to be good at languages?

[dusk-in-dendera.livejournal.com]

I hear you--I felt the same way about the finale. Part of me recognizes that it's the best possible ending we could get. RTD could have given us so much worse, the evil troll. And while I'm happy that Rose gets some version of the Doctor, it really does feel perverse when I start to overthink it.

What really irks me was the lack of a wonderful Rose/Jack moment. WTH was that, Rusty? Seriously? ;p

[greyladybast.livejournal.com]

I'm going to have to rewatch it to sort things out properly in my head, but right now I'm in a place where I'll forgive almost anything, just because of the Sarah Jane-Davros interaction. That. was. FANTASTIC!!!!!

There's gotta be more to the Donna story, though. She's too brilliant, curious and stubborn for the ENTIRE REST OF THE WORLD'S talk not to get through to her as having really happened. Also, how to explain the year (or two) that she's lost? I'm supposed to believe that NOBODY who was invited to her wedding, and thus presumably in her circle of friends-aquaintances is going to mention that bit, at least? I'm supposed to buy that Donna won't start to wonder WTF really happened to her, and thus try to work it out? I'm supposed to believe that Donna, even pre-Runaway Bride Donna, won't pick and pick and pick at the inconsistancies of her recent past, until she gets an explanation that satiisfies her, which would HAVE to be the real truth, because hello! This is DONNA we're discussing. Have ya MET the woman?

I do hope that Moffat finds a way to revisit Donna, and explain all this stuff satisfactorily. After all, there are far more loose ends in the Donna arc than there were in the Rose one, and they brought her sorry ass back to tie it up in a neat little bow. Why not Donna, too?