Oh hai, Dail Mail fuckwit opinion on rape

[misscam]

Says fuckwit, aisle Daily Mail: ... it does mean that a rape victim who was drunk deserves less sympathy.

OH NO YOU DIDN'T.

He then goes on to bitch about his taxes being used to compensate rape victims. Ohnoes, you know. His precious tax pounds.

So I suppose we must resign ourselves to the fact that a growing slice of our taxes will be handed over to victims of unsolved rapes, while rape itself increases – the inevitable result of the collapse of sexual morality.

But I cannot see why women who ignore the wisdom of the ages, and make themselves more likely to be victims by drinking too much, should get the same size cheque as women who are raped despite acting responsibly.

You, good sir, are a fuckwit and let me explain to you very slowly in your chosen language of English.

1) You are putting the focus on THE VICTIM. What about the guys who drink and then do stupid shit like rape? Not a word about how bad they are for society, I note. No, no. Lets make it all about the victim and not the culprit. So you want to talk about how drinking is bad and a factor in rape? Yeah, make it about the victim and not the culprits who rape while under the influence. Gee, notice something slightly off there?

2) Doing something dumb now gets you less sympathy? WTF is sympathy, some sort of currency with a fluctuating exchange rate? Someone who is a bit 'dim' (to use your words) has as much right to your sympathy as anyone else because what happened to her is equally horrible no matter why it happened.

3) Women who are drunk do no more asked to be raped than women who wear low-cut tops, women who walk home alone, women who live. Women are more likely to be raped just by living, as it so happens. Drinking might put women in a more vunerable position, but so can a lot of other things. If you start deducting compensation for risk factor you might as well deduct some for living in general. Life is risk, because our society is not safe and somehow, we as a women are a bit dim unless we're willing to live life a little less because some guys are fuckwits who rape?

4) Most rapes do not happen between strangers. Most happen between a victim and a perp that know each other. Are we supposed to blame women who trust a guy they know enough to drink with him but not the guy who takes advantage of this trust to rape? If all it takes is a bit of drinking and men can't help themselves, why are not they being locked up as protective measure?

5) 'Of course she is culpable, just as she would be culpable if she crashed a car and injured someone while drunk, or stepped out into the traffic while drunk and was run over.' Ye Gods, your comparison to being drunk and stepping into the road to get hit by a passing car. No woman forces a guy to rape her by stepping into his path. So she got plastered. That does not mean the guy couldn't help himself. He could and he didn't. It's more like the guy driving saw a drunk woman, deliberately turned his car to hit her because he knew her ability to react would be impaired. See the rather crucial difference there? You might say 'oh, if she hadn't been drunk, she might have been able to throw herself to one side and not get hit, so it's a bit on her really'. THE CAR STILL WENT FOR HER. She still got hit. It still hurt just as much if she had been sober when hit.

6) ‘If women want to dress provocatively, then they should be free to do so, and I say thanks a lot to those who do.’ OH BITE ME. I don't dress for you, I don't want your thanks and it's not for you to approve of how I dress. That's always and forever my choice.

7) Binge-drinking and stupid shit happening while drunk IS a society problem, yeah. But it's also something given quite a lot of pass in society, indulged in a 'haha-you-know-what-I-did-while-drunk-last-weekend' way and even pushed to a certain degree. So faulting women for drinking when men do it merrily to the same degree because rape is something to mostly happen to women? Double standards, fuckwit. Heard of them?

8) Your aside about how 'collapse of sexual morality' has lead to more rape? HAI, you don't know that. What you might know is that reports of rape has increased, maybe because women feel a little more supported when reporting it these days. A little. Rape is still hugely underreported and you don't think this was the case in some glorious nostalgic olden times? Don't put the past on a pedastal - everything wasn't better before. And quite frankly, any sort of implication that sexual liberation of women has lead to more rape is disgusting and pinning it on the woman AGAIN. You better not be implying that, you fuckwit.

The comments are full of fail and men going on about how many women evilly accuse poor innocent men of rape to make money. To which I rather like this reply:

The conviction rate for rape in the UK is about 6%. In the meantime, a woman who accuses a man of rape has a 100% chance of getting treatment that accompanies no other crime: she’ll be blamed, she’ll be lectured on what she did wrong and what else she coulda shoulda woulda done, she’ll have her every sexual choice before or after the alleged crime dissected, she’ll be told he couldn’t have meant it because he’s just not really like that, she’ll be told it’s not that serious really and can’t she just let it go for the good of all, she’ll be questioned for her determination to ruin a man’s life for what was really just one little mistake; and that’s from the people who believe her and think they’re on her side.

Anyone who thinks the compensation you might get is worth enduring what you go through when reporting a rape has no idea whatsoever what it's like. NO IDEA.

To sum up: Why the everhateful fuck is rape always about the victim and not about the rapist? Maybe because articles like that are written and make angling it on the victim acceptable. You know what? It shouldn't be.

(I so need a BSG WTF icon.)

This concludes the rage of the day.

Comments

[trialia]

Seeing your rage and adding nausea to that. *gives you a hug*

I'm so furious right now I don't think I could even be properly coherent about this. *KEYSMASH* tayrcuw4\6fcch\4et srfcsg!!!!!!!!1

[siraj.livejournal.com]

*whips out his WTF icon on your behalf, and sharpens his sword* so, filleted, gutted, or slashed into bloody doggie chunks? I can most certainly oblige you on all three...

(No, I'm not in a blind fury... if I was, I'd be looking up this bastard's address and checking flight prices to Europe... and besides, this is Peter-fuckin'-Hitchens, we think of this dumbarse as the European Rush Limbaugh... just as deserving of being fed his teeth and getting a taser to the balls).

[babylon-whore.livejournal.com]

Motherfrakking WORD to the millionth power on EVERYTHING you just said. I am so angry right now I feel like my blood is boiling.

[misscam.livejournal.com]

I read this yesterday. I was not coherent then.

Seriously, the 'less sympathy' remarks makes me want to punch him in the balls, and I am not that violent a person.

[misscam.livejournal.com]

Oh, this guy has a reputation of fuckwittery? I hadn't heard the name before, or at least I didn't remember it. Not really suprised - this is the sort of thing a certain type of Conservative White Men would say.

Blah. I live in hope this kind of fuckwittery will die out in a generation or two.

[siraj.livejournal.com]

Yeah... if you've ever heard of Ann Coulter over here in the States, Hitchens is a male version of that whacknut.

We can only hope. Failing that, there's always Viking SMASH!

[misscam.livejournal.com]

This guy's attitude is so much a part of the fuckwit stuff I'm so, so, so, so tired of when it comes to rape.

I've ranted about it before, but really, society has so far to go still in attitudes to rape and this guy proves it so well.

[ice-feather.livejournal.com]

My mother reads the Daily Mail (and falls for all their fear mongering BS) and I hate having to see the trash rag lying around the house. It really winds me up.

I can't look at any of the papers myself. They just make my blood boil, especially the way they are towards women and their weight.

[babylon-whore.livejournal.com]

I couldn't agree with you anymore. I find no fault in anything that you've said/are saying. I think society in this, and many other, regards is shit, I think the attitudes we have to suffer through somtimes for simply being women is shit, I think anyone that thinks anyone asks to be raped or deserves any less consideration for ANY reason IS A SHIT and the worst kind of person. I'd respond to your other post with more articulate thoughts than to hug and applaud you but thats basically what it'd boil down to.

[misscam.livejournal.com]

Media really has some ways to go in attitudes towards women in general - but hey, then again, so does society, and they both feed off each other.

[misscam.livejournal.com]

I find it extra sad that often *women* push this attitude towards other women. It's just... I try to remind myself we have come further and we have, but I still feel so angry sometimes.

Seriously, rape/sexual assault is about the shittiest thing done to another human being and a huge part of that is the kind of attitudes you encounter after. *That* is not all right. It's fucked up when I am glad what happened to me was so violent no one would question me, you know? That is seriously fucked up.

Preaching to the choir, I know. I just gotta say these things sometimes or I go a little mad.

[misscam.livejournal.com]

Oh, I know *her*. Ew. Every nation has one, huh?

[denorios.livejournal.com]

What a fuckwit for the ages. As though being drunk makes any difference to the crime itself. If a woman was murdered whilst drunk, would that be her fault? And let's be honest, what difference does it really make, being drunk or sober? It is a crime being committed against your person that you cannot prevent, regardless of whether you've had twelve drinks or none. That's the point. You can't stop them. Unless he's suggesting that drunk women secretly want it and have egged their rapist on or are so drunk they don't know they're being raped? WHAT?

GAH. RAGE.

[lotus79.livejournal.com]

OMGWHAT?

Fuckwits like this are still allowed to breathe my air? Effing RAGE to the power of infinity.

*clings*

[misscam.livejournal.com]

Oh, someone in the comments suggested that drunk women had consentual sex, woke up and regretted it and therefore accused the man of rape and their poor tax pounds were being used for this purpose. And then someone suggsted that getting drunk should be a liable defence against rape accusations.

I hope that last was sarcasm, or I think I'll lose another sanity point.

[misscam.livejournal.com]

*clings back*

A depressing large amount of people think a bit like him, though.

[siraj.livejournal.com]

*Sigh* Unfortunately so. Why we can't just shoot these wankers into the damned sun, I don't know... Phelps, Robertson, Coulter, Limbaugh and Hitchens being burned to a crisp by some lovely solar rays would make the world a better place.

[elvenpiratelady.livejournal.com]

This has been one of the days when I really wish I could force-choke sense into people. Nice comment at the end, that sums up a lot of opinions. For the rest, you've said it very well, so I only add: WORD, FUCKING WORD.

[marcasite.livejournal.com]

WTF is that? Why do these morons have to subject us, time and time again, to their stupid, moronic, hurtful views? I can't stand how anyone can even believe that load of crap! Why are fuckwits like this still aloud to spread this hateful crap???

*hugs*

[zinke.livejournal.com]

decision to cut compensation to rape victims who were drunk.

I nearly lost my breakfast when I read about this last week in the UK papers. That a government agency not only made a decision to provide reduced compensation to multiple rape victims who had been drinking, but also claimed that while doing so they were in compliance with agency policies is simply unacceptable

From last week's vomit-inducing Mail article: "Officials at the Criminal Injury Compensation Authority told women their drinking was a ' contributing factor' in their ordeal. The standard taxpayer-funded payouts of £11,000 were cut by as much as a quarter. The rules of the CICA scheme allow payments to be reduced in cases where victims are partly to blame - such as by provoking an attacker."

There are no words.

[hannah-henchman.livejournal.com]

I'm totally confused. There's a keyboard in front of me. I evidently have electricity. But...I'm pretty convinced I was somehow transported to the Middle Ages.

You said pretty much everything I was sputtering and snarling while reading the article.
Still gotta say a couple things though:
**Of course she is culpable, just as she would be culpable if she crashed a car and injured someone while drunk, or stepped out into the traffic while drunk and was run over.

I agree with you totally--The idea of a drunk person being hit by a car in ANY way being the equivalent of rape is totally screwed. It only works if the driver is speeding and aiming for the staggering person.
It's the question of intent..Is harm intended. But, that would focus on the perpetrator and we can't have that.
But the first part...Equating a rape victim with a drunk driver? That makes me homicidal. A drunk driver disregards not only their OWN safety but the safety of others. BIG difference.

Something else that bugged me...
**Our society is based on self-restraint. We can be provoked and still behave ourselves.

So a woman who is dress in a visually appealing way and having a beer is...provoking males to sexual violence?
Yet again, I feel like he's accusing victims of a violent crime of more than just "stupidity"...He's suggesting intent and wrongful action on their part.

Beyond that, how drunk does he consider drunk enough to be "culpable"?
If I go out to a bar and have two drinks, I will not get behind the wheel of a car. I know my judgement and reflexes are slightly impaired. But I am certainly NOT drunk enough to be confused about whether or not sex is consensual (...actually, as trashed as I've been, I've yet to reach that point).
If I'm jumped on the way to someone ELSE'S car or someone I think is a trustworthy friend does something fucked up, I'm less able to defend myself.
Am I to blame?
Actually, what if I were physically or mentally disabled? I would be more vulnerable EVERY time I went out...Would I be at fault just for going out at all?
I think I'll have to try calling into work, "Hey, I've got a bad headache so I'm not at my physical peak and might be raped. Don't want to do anything "dim", ya know?"
Point being--You start blaming the victim, who knows where it will end. You could always have done something different, doesn't mean you're to blame or that it would even have changed the outcome.

**Anyone who thinks the compensation you might get is worth enduring what you go through when reporting a rape has no idea whatsoever what it's like.

I do have to admit that I'm a little confused about the idea of monetary compensation...It's just not something I'm familiar with. Of course it's not worth any amount of money so how is compensation determined? Here it would be a civil matter instead of a criminal one and I'm embarrassed to admit that I don't know if someone can sue for being raped.
Seems to me it would be most fair to base it on things like lost wages/physical and mental treatment needed--Trying to base it on "pain and suffering" would almost be insulting.
Also, are the perpetrator's assets ever confiscated to foot part of the bill? To me, that seems like both deterrent and a way to defer the cost that DOESN'T blame the victim.

[misscam.livejournal.com]

I gather their decision was reserved, and this reversal is what the fuckwit is ranting about.

Looooooooooovely.

And WTF, 'provoking' an attacker? How do rape victims 'provoke' an attacker?

[babylon-whore.livejournal.com]

Hey you know my stance on rants/venting/ramblings. Always feel free to go on about anything as long as you want.

Not enough people say stuff like this, not enough people *think* like this.

[misscam.livejournal.com]

Well, I'm assuming by the sounds of it the UK has a similar system to Norway on this. When a rape occurs, you are entitled to compensation from the rapist, and when he is convicted, part of the sentence against him will be financial compensation for the victim. However, in cases where there is no conviction, the state will foot the bill for the compensation.

So that's what the guy is on about. The cases where the rapist is not caught or convicted, the victim still gets compensation but from the state. I think you have to appeal for it to some sort of state agency - usually, the lawyer the state grants you will do all this for you. I don't know what the amount is in the UK or what the process is exactly, but it sounds similar to Norway's. It's all granted under the law.

Yeah, his drunk driver comparison is just... It does come across a bit like rape victims play a part in the rape in his eyes, which is the sort of thinking that enables the shit that rape victims often face. For the fail, truly.

[misscam.livejournal.com]

Because people pay them to opinonate, it seems.

[zinke.livejournal.com]

Yes, after a (not surprisingly) HUGE public outcry, the CICA reversed the decision and admitted that the application of that particular policy had been inapproriate.

How do rape victims 'provoke' an attacker?

Clearly by wearing mini-skirts, make-up and smiling in public.

[carolpent.livejournal.com]

Personally, I think he's not only being sexist to women, but to men, too. Is he saying that any man wouldn't be able to control himself if presented with a drunk girl?

[broken-enemy.livejournal.com]

When I heard about the compensation thing in the papers last week, I was pissed off, but this is really ridiculous. This man does not deserve to exist. I'm just so angry at this stupid, sexist argument.

[evilstorm.livejournal.com]

Yes. That one flies around a lot.

[ice-feather.livejournal.com]

Very true, that. Certainly some food for thought.

[cbackson.livejournal.com]

Since the whole thing just drives me insane, I'm going to pick on one part of it to minimize the head-explosion, namely, the idea that rape is increasing due to a decline in sexual morality. Because, WTF, why do people imagine that in some prior Golden Age of Chastity, there was no rape? Of course there was rape, ALL THE F'ING TIME, because women were utterly legally powerless. FUCKERS.

[starletfallen.livejournal.com]

...

There are no words for the seething rage I'm feeling right now. I'm one of those people who were "a bit dim", because I was a manic, unmedicated 15-year-old who was pissed at her parents and hitched a ride from some guy in the middle of the night. Yes, it was stupid. Does that make my emotional trauma any less than someone who was smart?


ad;sfk;aweio;ahkl;jdfHATE.

[greyladybast.livejournal.com]

...which is why I never pressed charges against That Asshole John Rose, and don't like to talk about it to certain people. I DO NOT want to hear, "Well, what'd you do? Well, what'd you expect?"

What *I* did was hang out with my friend, same as I'd done ten thousand times before, and what I expected was to hang out with my friend, same as I'd done ten thousand times before. It IS NOT my fault that that time he up and decided he just felt like taking what he wanted without asking, because he knew if he asked, I'd say no.

Bast

P.S.---can I steal that icon, now that I have space for it? Pretty please?

[boz4pm.livejournal.com]

The Daily Mail is a rag of the first order that invariably spread pernicious idiocy of one sort or another. I have no idea who pays money for it, but can only assume they must have several screws loose.

[the-wanlorn.livejournal.com]

What the actual fuck who could even think that??? Nevermind say it out loud! WHAT THE SHIT.

[wildecate.livejournal.com]

I completely agree with you on all points. Part of my job is to deal with these compensation claims on behalf of the victim, I deal regularly with the CICA who have recently brought out the ruling about compensating women who were raped whilst drunk. We have come up against this wall so many times and I can't tell you how frustrating it is. All of the people I've spoken to about this subject have expressed how surprised they've been that whether the victim has been drinking or not is an issue. From the point of view of the CICA I'm sure they just use it as a way to keep compensation levels down and don't think about the victims at all. It's like getting blood out of a stone sometimes. The thing is that no matter how much compensation you receive you can never be who you were, you have been changed irrevocably. Often with the clients I deal with, the money that they get (such as it is) goes towards counselling or therapy to help themselves deal with what has happened and try and put their lives back together because there is no or little provision for this elsewhere. Perhaps I ought to get this guy to read some of the CICA applications that I've dealt with and see if he's so perky and opinionated afterwards. What an arsehole.

[misscam.livejournal.com]

With all the focus on the victim, so many seem to forget that HAI, there was a rapist there too and no one forced him to decide to rape, FFS.

And sure - it's a long time since I made that one, but I think I did post it at some point with a 'feel free to snag with credit'.

[misscam.livejournal.com]

It sure as fuck does not and anyone claiming so is a fuckwit.

[hannah-henchman.livejournal.com]

**When a rape occurs, you are entitled to compensation from the rapist, and when he is convicted, part of the sentence against him will be financial compensation for the victim...

Wow, what an awesome system! Much better than here where you'd have to go through two trials--criminal and civil if you wanted compensation. We had to do that with a vehicular manslaughter case over a drunk driver a few years ago and it was awful to relive that TWICE, ya know?

**The cases where the rapist is not caught or convicted, the victim still gets compensation but from the state...

Hmmm...I can almost see the guy's point (minus the alcohol element) in cases where there's no conviction, though not in cases where the perpetrator can't be found.
I mean, it's a hard call...Do you risk people abusing the system or risk someone who needs the help not getting it? I say the latter, but I can see an argument both ways at least.

**It does come across a bit like rape victims play a part in the rape in his eyes, which is the sort of thinking that enables the shit that rape victims often face...

EXACTLY! Assuming that rape cases are on the rise because of the actual number of sexual assaults and NOT because of an increase in women reporting these crimes, I would blame it on this sort of attitude rather than "loose morals."
I just don't like to see ANY gray area on these things...It encourages gray areas in male thinking about a woman's rights over her body, which is just dangerous. Cliche though it may be, no really does mean no.
Drinking is a cultural staple...I think, instead of this bullshit, men should be taught that, should they have any idea that a woman is drunk enough she might not be aware of what she's consenting to, it's THEIR responsibility to not go there.