![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
misscamThere were riots in Oslo yesterday. Yeah, really. We haven't had any in... I can't really remember, but 'ever' sort of comes to mind. Not like these ones, anyway. Windows broken, attempts to start fire, 31 people arrested and most the population going what the fuck?
Do you need three guesses on what started this?
Did you guess Israel/Palestine? Ding ding ding! Of course, it was Israel and Palestine. And most of those arrested seem to be second-generation-immigration, as we tend to call them in Norway. Many with a history of violence. In addition, some stupid football hooligans (known as 'casuals', Norway's got a few hundred of them I believe) also got involved. That they give a shit about either Israel or Palestine, I refuse to believe. In short, a lot of people seem to have just gotten into it for 'yay! violence!' reasons.
To which I say, fuck you. Even the two street gangs Oslo have (who do all sorts of shit) have been all bitch, please. When even street gangs tell you off, you've sunk low. Low low low low.
But this whole thing undeniably started with demonstrations for and against Israel. One elderly guy who was carrying an Israel flag was attacked, though two young muslim boys apparently got him out and no serious harm done. (Props, two young muslim guys!) And ARGH. I've been discussing the conflict with various people on different sides, and probably if you're strongly for one or the other, you might not like my opinion.
Because me, I'm giving grief to the Israeli government and Hamas both, you better believe it. And at the same time, I feel so really bad for the Israeli and Palestine people both. People are dying. The situation sucks. Palestine is getting screwed over by states around it who are using it to maintain a conflict with Israel for their own reasons as well as being strangled by Israel and territory being occupied. The only options for people seem to be either Hamas, who I will lay into very shortly, or Fatah, which have not managed to govern too well and have been accused of various not so great things including corruption. (To sum up, options are 'suck' or 'suckier' and which is which just depends what you judge them on.) The Gaza Strip is one of the poorest regions on Earth, with rampant unemployment and a strong dependency on aid. Israel, on the other hand, are constantly threatened, targetted, slammed and outright attacked. Israel doesn't need conspiracy theories, it knows a lot of countries would like to wipe it off the map by any means necessary. Couple this with a very long history of anti-semitism and Israel has many genuine reasons to feel it needs to defend itself.
So, this situation sucks all around.
Hamas is full of asshats. Targetting civilians IS NEVER OKAY. All the charitable work Hamas does - and which is a huge reason for its popularity among Palestinian people - does not excuse this. They're armed and funded by extremely dodgy governments, who have their own agendas. I will have to quote Terry Pratchett here - 'what sort of creature defines itself by hatred?' I am looking at you, HAMSAS. So yeah, I do not like Hamas, but they are a reality and I don't think ignoring them will work too well. They will not magically go away. They are a part of this conflict. It's like Northern Ireland and the IRA - the peace agreement there came with the IRA as a party.
The Israeli government meanwhile, is causing suffering on a widespread scale. As mentioned above, the Gaza Strip is already poor and somewhat strangled by a blockade Israel has enacted. Some aid come through, but how much is hard to say. Israel won't allow journalists into the Gaze Strip and have at points denied there's a humanitarian crisis. BULLSHIT. You bomb and blockade a densely populated, already poor region? Fuck yeah there will be a humanitarian crisis. Norway also happen to have two doctors in the Gaza Strip, and from all accounts it's bad in there. So, how much of this can be justified by what Hamas does to Israel?
Not enough for me, I'm sorry. The scale of it is too much. I so not like Hamas, but... No. I cannot and will not defend this.
I haven't gone into the history of the conflict too much, and for a reason. Of course why and how it came to this matters, but once you get to a certain point... All sides have done so much there's blood on all hands. Once so many have died, the future has to matter more than the past. What has happened, has happened. Injustices have been committed. Children have been left parentless, and parents have had to bury their children. Pain has been endured. It can't be changed now, regardless whose fault it primarily was. There is a fine line between acknowledging wrongs of the past and getting lost in them.
I think this conflict is lost in the wrongs. (Undoubtedly, there has been many.) It's too late to right all those, because you cannot rise the dead, Palestinian or Israeli.
But you can let someone live tomorrow.
I can't really offer any great solutions - many have tried and failed. It will have to involve a lot of compromises that won't be taken happily and the will for a better future overcome the grief of a lot of suffering. It will have to mean people who wish each other dead talking to each other. That won't be easy. It will mean having to care enough for your people to give them a future and not let them die for the past.
Sometimes, I think the real hero is not the person willing to die for a casuse. It's the one who won't let others be killed in the name of it.
Now I properly depressed myself too.
In other stuff:
Among the latest to seek federal bailout, the porn industry. I dare say this seems a political thing more than anything else, but trying to get a rise out of Congress sounds like fun with all the sexual imagery you could play with.
Joe 'the Plummer' is reporting on the Irsaeli-Palestine conflict. Yes. because becoming a Republican campaign gimmick is truly a good qualifier for news reporting.
Winter is cold, and Europe is freezing with Ukraina-Russia gas conflict. Brrr. The second biggest supplier to EU from outside is Norway, so I wouldn't be surprised if we get some hints about increased production being good, yes?
With Bush almost gone, a look back at some famous 'Bushisms'.
Is "The Soup" as funny as clips like this and this make it seem? If so, WANT.
Do you need three guesses on what started this?
Did you guess Israel/Palestine? Ding ding ding! Of course, it was Israel and Palestine. And most of those arrested seem to be second-generation-immigration, as we tend to call them in Norway. Many with a history of violence. In addition, some stupid football hooligans (known as 'casuals', Norway's got a few hundred of them I believe) also got involved. That they give a shit about either Israel or Palestine, I refuse to believe. In short, a lot of people seem to have just gotten into it for 'yay! violence!' reasons.
To which I say, fuck you. Even the two street gangs Oslo have (who do all sorts of shit) have been all bitch, please. When even street gangs tell you off, you've sunk low. Low low low low.
But this whole thing undeniably started with demonstrations for and against Israel. One elderly guy who was carrying an Israel flag was attacked, though two young muslim boys apparently got him out and no serious harm done. (Props, two young muslim guys!) And ARGH. I've been discussing the conflict with various people on different sides, and probably if you're strongly for one or the other, you might not like my opinion.
Because me, I'm giving grief to the Israeli government and Hamas both, you better believe it. And at the same time, I feel so really bad for the Israeli and Palestine people both. People are dying. The situation sucks. Palestine is getting screwed over by states around it who are using it to maintain a conflict with Israel for their own reasons as well as being strangled by Israel and territory being occupied. The only options for people seem to be either Hamas, who I will lay into very shortly, or Fatah, which have not managed to govern too well and have been accused of various not so great things including corruption. (To sum up, options are 'suck' or 'suckier' and which is which just depends what you judge them on.) The Gaza Strip is one of the poorest regions on Earth, with rampant unemployment and a strong dependency on aid. Israel, on the other hand, are constantly threatened, targetted, slammed and outright attacked. Israel doesn't need conspiracy theories, it knows a lot of countries would like to wipe it off the map by any means necessary. Couple this with a very long history of anti-semitism and Israel has many genuine reasons to feel it needs to defend itself.
So, this situation sucks all around.
Hamas is full of asshats. Targetting civilians IS NEVER OKAY. All the charitable work Hamas does - and which is a huge reason for its popularity among Palestinian people - does not excuse this. They're armed and funded by extremely dodgy governments, who have their own agendas. I will have to quote Terry Pratchett here - 'what sort of creature defines itself by hatred?' I am looking at you, HAMSAS. So yeah, I do not like Hamas, but they are a reality and I don't think ignoring them will work too well. They will not magically go away. They are a part of this conflict. It's like Northern Ireland and the IRA - the peace agreement there came with the IRA as a party.
The Israeli government meanwhile, is causing suffering on a widespread scale. As mentioned above, the Gaza Strip is already poor and somewhat strangled by a blockade Israel has enacted. Some aid come through, but how much is hard to say. Israel won't allow journalists into the Gaze Strip and have at points denied there's a humanitarian crisis. BULLSHIT. You bomb and blockade a densely populated, already poor region? Fuck yeah there will be a humanitarian crisis. Norway also happen to have two doctors in the Gaza Strip, and from all accounts it's bad in there. So, how much of this can be justified by what Hamas does to Israel?
Not enough for me, I'm sorry. The scale of it is too much. I so not like Hamas, but... No. I cannot and will not defend this.
I haven't gone into the history of the conflict too much, and for a reason. Of course why and how it came to this matters, but once you get to a certain point... All sides have done so much there's blood on all hands. Once so many have died, the future has to matter more than the past. What has happened, has happened. Injustices have been committed. Children have been left parentless, and parents have had to bury their children. Pain has been endured. It can't be changed now, regardless whose fault it primarily was. There is a fine line between acknowledging wrongs of the past and getting lost in them.
I think this conflict is lost in the wrongs. (Undoubtedly, there has been many.) It's too late to right all those, because you cannot rise the dead, Palestinian or Israeli.
But you can let someone live tomorrow.
I can't really offer any great solutions - many have tried and failed. It will have to involve a lot of compromises that won't be taken happily and the will for a better future overcome the grief of a lot of suffering. It will have to mean people who wish each other dead talking to each other. That won't be easy. It will mean having to care enough for your people to give them a future and not let them die for the past.
Sometimes, I think the real hero is not the person willing to die for a casuse. It's the one who won't let others be killed in the name of it.
Now I properly depressed myself too.
In other stuff:
Among the latest to seek federal bailout, the porn industry. I dare say this seems a political thing more than anything else, but trying to get a rise out of Congress sounds like fun with all the sexual imagery you could play with.
Joe 'the Plummer' is reporting on the Irsaeli-Palestine conflict. Yes. because becoming a Republican campaign gimmick is truly a good qualifier for news reporting.
Winter is cold, and Europe is freezing with Ukraina-Russia gas conflict. Brrr. The second biggest supplier to EU from outside is Norway, so I wouldn't be surprised if we get some hints about increased production being good, yes?
With Bush almost gone, a look back at some famous 'Bushisms'.
Is "The Soup" as funny as clips like this and this make it seem? If so, WANT.
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
no subject
Date: 2009-01-09 04:30 pm (UTC)And you need to see "Religulous" like whoa.
no subject
Date: 2009-01-09 04:35 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-01-09 04:36 pm (UTC)That's one of those things that gives me hope about the world.
no subject
Date: 2009-01-09 04:38 pm (UTC)Guess who is responsible for one of the latter? The local chapter of the NPD (extreme right-wing / Neonazi party). They will be handing out leaflets with a shitload of anti-semitic propaganda, I suppose; as far as I know, they also planned to throw shoes at the local synagogue to "symbolize" the bombing of Gaza. Fortunately, this was outlawed by the municipal authorities beforehand. The whole issue makes me just sick.
I knew it was only a matter of time until the Germans who are secretly longing for the Fourth Reich would try to use this military and humanitarian crisis for their own ends, but that's just... URGH. DO. NOT. WANT.
I am still mostly in bed with a cold; otherwise, I'd be very much tempted to join the anti-Nazi demonstration in the same time & place. (Even though it will be peopled by the left-wing "anti-fa" asshats for whom every conservative is a Fascist with a capital F.)
Um, now you know more about the reaction to Israel & Palestine in Munich than you ever wanted to.
no subject
Date: 2009-01-09 04:48 pm (UTC)So you keep saying, I might have to see if it popped up in Norway.
no subject
Date: 2009-01-09 04:51 pm (UTC)My personal favorite is bashing the leaders over the head with newspaper until they get it through their heads that they're being stupid.
re: Joe. Perhaps they're just trying to get rid of him?
Now, personally, my bias runs towards Israel... a lot... but I do have to agree some of the stuff they're doing like not letting in reporters is a bit dodgy.
no subject
Date: 2009-01-09 04:53 pm (UTC)Must find out where I can get it.
no subject
Date: 2009-01-09 05:00 pm (UTC)We need more people like that - who might disagree passionately with a view, but still would defend someone of the opposite from harm.
no subject
Date: 2009-01-09 05:11 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-01-09 05:17 pm (UTC)Way to go, fucktards.
no subject
Date: 2009-01-09 05:24 pm (UTC)Mmm. I have issues with more than that as you gathered, but if this conflict is to ever be resolved peacefully, different opinions have to be able to be exchanged without violence.
no subject
Date: 2009-01-09 05:32 pm (UTC)I do think a Jewish state might be a failed project longterm. European countries have gone secular and it is a trend. It might in the end be how this can be resolved. A state of Israel and Palestine both, secular and equal rights to all.
Perhaps one day.
no subject
Date: 2009-01-09 05:37 pm (UTC)From what I remember from my trip to Israel a couple of years ago, they were worried that the non-Jews were overtaking the Jewish population. Also they do give equal rights to Palestinians that are citizens.
*blathers about mother's trip to Israel in the late 1960s when the state government was doing helpful stuff for the Palestinians and she helped and someone one offered to buy her for some camels and gold*
no subject
Date: 2009-01-09 05:40 pm (UTC)That's why I want to do it. >.>
Right now it really feels like to me that they fire rockets and send in suicide bombers into Israel so they can go "Look! Look at what Israel does to us!" when Israel retaliates.
no subject
Date: 2009-01-09 05:49 pm (UTC)That concern about non-Jews taking over the Jewish population might be one reason for inequality. After all, many in Israel support two-state solution because otherwise Israel might not be Jewish anymore, and that Jewish idenity of it is very important to them.
no subject
Date: 2009-01-09 05:54 pm (UTC)But here's the key point to me - that still doesn't excuse the scale of what Israel is doing.
It's kinda why I'm bitching at both here. I am generally displeased with most parties to the conflict, really.
no subject
Date: 2009-01-09 06:18 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-01-09 06:19 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-01-09 06:43 pm (UTC)No it doesn't... if only because it's not going to help matters. I think Israel just got tired of it and is hitting back, but perhaps using too much force, which isn't earning them any friends but is very Israeli. Israelis tend to be loud and forceful when they finally do stuff. =D
But yeah, both parties need to have corner time.
no subject
Date: 2009-01-09 06:54 pm (UTC)http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQyIKyd2gqA
no subject
Date: 2009-01-09 06:55 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-01-09 06:55 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-01-09 06:57 pm (UTC)LMAO! Brilliantly said! And it's nice to know I'm not alone in fangirling Joel. :)
no subject
Date: 2009-01-09 07:05 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-01-09 07:07 pm (UTC)