A very touchy subject, other news and The Soup

[misscam]

There were riots in Oslo yesterday. Yeah, really. We haven't had any in... I can't really remember, but 'ever' sort of comes to mind. Not like these ones, anyway. Windows broken, attempts to start fire, 31 people arrested and most the population going what the fuck?

Do you need three guesses on what started this?

Did you guess Israel/Palestine? Ding ding ding! Of course, it was Israel and Palestine. And most of those arrested seem to be second-generation-immigration, as we tend to call them in Norway. Many with a history of violence. In addition, some stupid football hooligans (known as 'casuals', Norway's got a few hundred of them I believe) also got involved. That they give a shit about either Israel or Palestine, I refuse to believe. In short, a lot of people seem to have just gotten into it for 'yay! violence!' reasons.

To which I say, fuck you. Even the two street gangs Oslo have (who do all sorts of shit) have been all bitch, please. When even street gangs tell you off, you've sunk low. Low low low low.

But this whole thing undeniably started with demonstrations for and against Israel. One elderly guy who was carrying an Israel flag was attacked, though two young muslim boys apparently got him out and no serious harm done. (Props, two young muslim guys!) And ARGH. I've been discussing the conflict with various people on different sides, and probably if you're strongly for one or the other, you might not like my opinion.

Because me, I'm giving grief to the Israeli government and Hamas both, you better believe it. And at the same time, I feel so really bad for the Israeli and Palestine people both. People are dying. The situation sucks. Palestine is getting screwed over by states around it who are using it to maintain a conflict with Israel for their own reasons as well as being strangled by Israel and territory being occupied. The only options for people seem to be either Hamas, who I will lay into very shortly, or Fatah, which have not managed to govern too well and have been accused of various not so great things including corruption. (To sum up, options are 'suck' or 'suckier' and which is which just depends what you judge them on.) The Gaza Strip is one of the poorest regions on Earth, with rampant unemployment and a strong dependency on aid. Israel, on the other hand, are constantly threatened, targetted, slammed and outright attacked. Israel doesn't need conspiracy theories, it knows a lot of countries would like to wipe it off the map by any means necessary. Couple this with a very long history of anti-semitism and Israel has many genuine reasons to feel it needs to defend itself.

So, this situation sucks all around.

Hamas is full of asshats. Targetting civilians IS NEVER OKAY. All the charitable work Hamas does - and which is a huge reason for its popularity among Palestinian people - does not excuse this. They're armed and funded by extremely dodgy governments, who have their own agendas. I will have to quote Terry Pratchett here - 'what sort of creature defines itself by hatred?' I am looking at you, HAMSAS. So yeah, I do not like Hamas, but they are a reality and I don't think ignoring them will work too well. They will not magically go away. They are a part of this conflict. It's like Northern Ireland and the IRA - the peace agreement there came with the IRA as a party.

The Israeli government meanwhile, is causing suffering on a widespread scale. As mentioned above, the Gaza Strip is already poor and somewhat strangled by a blockade Israel has enacted. Some aid come through, but how much is hard to say. Israel won't allow journalists into the Gaze Strip and have at points denied there's a humanitarian crisis. BULLSHIT. You bomb and blockade a densely populated, already poor region? Fuck yeah there will be a humanitarian crisis. Norway also happen to have two doctors in the Gaza Strip, and from all accounts it's bad in there. So, how much of this can be justified by what Hamas does to Israel?

Not enough for me, I'm sorry. The scale of it is too much. I so not like Hamas, but... No. I cannot and will not defend this.

I haven't gone into the history of the conflict too much, and for a reason. Of course why and how it came to this matters, but once you get to a certain point... All sides have done so much there's blood on all hands. Once so many have died, the future has to matter more than the past. What has happened, has happened. Injustices have been committed. Children have been left parentless, and parents have had to bury their children. Pain has been endured. It can't be changed now, regardless whose fault it primarily was. There is a fine line between acknowledging wrongs of the past and getting lost in them.

I think this conflict is lost in the wrongs. (Undoubtedly, there has been many.) It's too late to right all those, because you cannot rise the dead, Palestinian or Israeli.

But you can let someone live tomorrow.

I can't really offer any great solutions - many have tried and failed. It will have to involve a lot of compromises that won't be taken happily and the will for a better future overcome the grief of a lot of suffering. It will have to mean people who wish each other dead talking to each other. That won't be easy. It will mean having to care enough for your people to give them a future and not let them die for the past.

Sometimes, I think the real hero is not the person willing to die for a casuse. It's the one who won't let others be killed in the name of it.

Now I properly depressed myself too.

In other stuff:

Among the latest to seek federal bailout, the porn industry. I dare say this seems a political thing more than anything else, but trying to get a rise out of Congress sounds like fun with all the sexual imagery you could play with.

Joe 'the Plummer' is reporting on the Irsaeli-Palestine conflict. Yes. because becoming a Republican campaign gimmick is truly a good qualifier for news reporting.

Winter is cold, and Europe is freezing with Ukraina-Russia gas conflict. Brrr. The second biggest supplier to EU from outside is Norway, so I wouldn't be surprised if we get some hints about increased production being good, yes?

With Bush almost gone, a look back at some famous 'Bushisms'.

Is "The Soup" as funny as clips like this and this make it seem? If so, WANT.

Comments

[lotus79.livejournal.com]

Oh god those Bush quotes. Thank goodness the man is nearly GONE.

And you need to see "Religulous" like whoa.

[misscam.livejournal.com]

Ten more days. I am almost sad.

So you keep saying, I might have to see if it popped up in Norway.

[cheesygirl.livejournal.com]

The Soup is AWESOME. You get to see the best bits of bad TV without having to actually watch it all, with bonus snark!

[misscam.livejournal.com]

I only caught a few clips, but they really cracked me up and I want more. It's the sort of sarcastic, mean stuff I have a not-so-secret love for.

Must find out where I can get it.

[everysecondtues.livejournal.com]

One elderly guy who was carrying an Israel flag was attacked, though two young muslim boys apparently got him out and no serious harm done.
That's one of those things that gives me hope about the world.

[misscam.livejournal.com]

Yes. That was one nice thing in there, and the guy was thanking them after.

We need more people like that - who might disagree passionately with a view, but still would defend someone of the opposite from harm.

[rivrea.livejournal.com]

There are both pro-Israel and pro-Palestine demonstrations scheduled here in town for this weekend.

Guess who is responsible for one of the latter? The local chapter of the NPD (extreme right-wing / Neonazi party). They will be handing out leaflets with a shitload of anti-semitic propaganda, I suppose; as far as I know, they also planned to throw shoes at the local synagogue to "symbolize" the bombing of Gaza. Fortunately, this was outlawed by the municipal authorities beforehand. The whole issue makes me just sick.

I knew it was only a matter of time until the Germans who are secretly longing for the Fourth Reich would try to use this military and humanitarian crisis for their own ends, but that's just... URGH. DO. NOT. WANT.

I am still mostly in bed with a cold; otherwise, I'd be very much tempted to join the anti-Nazi demonstration in the same time & place. (Even though it will be peopled by the left-wing "anti-fa" asshats for whom every conservative is a Fascist with a capital F.)

Um, now you know more about the reaction to Israel & Palestine in Munich than you ever wanted to.

[misscam.livejournal.com]

Oh, I'm so with you. They're really trying to co-opt genuine issues for stupid fucking hateful reasons and use that to justify total bullshit. They care nada for Palestine, given the whole white superiority angle, it's just a convenient way to wrap their own message. So, they manage to do damage to Israel by spreading their lies, and people who have geuine issues to raise about Israel to by association.

Way to go, fucktards.

[kippurbird.livejournal.com]

I can't really offer any great solutions - many have tried and failed.

My personal favorite is bashing the leaders over the head with newspaper until they get it through their heads that they're being stupid.

re: Joe. Perhaps they're just trying to get rid of him?

Now, personally, my bias runs towards Israel... a lot... but I do have to agree some of the stuff they're doing like not letting in reporters is a bit dodgy.

[misscam.livejournal.com]

Well, that solution could hardly do worse than some of the others. Give it a shot, says I. (Then again, I want to bang leaders' heads together just for the personal pleasure of it. ARGH at them.)

Mmm. I have issues with more than that as you gathered, but if this conflict is to ever be resolved peacefully, different opinions have to be able to be exchanged without violence.

[dune-drd.livejournal.com]

Word to the Israeli/Palestinian conflict there. You sound a lot like good old Butros there.

[misscam.livejournal.com]

That's a depressing interview, but yeah, I agree with a good deal of that, with the addendum that Hamas is doing a great deal of damage to their own people in some of the same ways. Their attcks are strenghtening hardliners in Israel and causing only more shit for the civilian population.

I do think a Jewish state might be a failed project longterm. European countries have gone secular and it is a trend. It might in the end be how this can be resolved. A state of Israel and Palestine both, secular and equal rights to all.

Perhaps one day.

[munchkin62.livejournal.com]

The Soup is actually that funny! I watch it every week!

[misscam.livejournal.com]

So lots of people say. Must get, it seems.

[karaotter.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure if you've seen this or not, but there's footage of a girl standing up against some Israeli soldiers up on YouTube from a Korean news program. She shows up about fifty seconds into the video. (Though the comments aren't really worth reading.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQyIKyd2gqA

[kasuchi]

The comments are the usual ignorant remarks expected on YouTube, agreed. But that video is intense. Thank you for linking that.

[claena1.livejournal.com]

Joel McHale is my soulmate... in that "we'll never meet, but I want to have your pretend fangirl babies" sort of way. The Soup is really the only true way to experience American reality television without destroying your will to live.

[littlezink.livejournal.com]

the only true way to experience American reality television without destroying your will to live

LMAO! Brilliantly said! And it's nice to know I'm not alone in fangirling Joel. :)

[littlezink.livejournal.com]

Yes, The Soup is, without exception, that hilarious every week. I've watched it for years, and it's always great, but Joel McHale is an absolute riot.

[misscam.livejournal.com]

I quite like him already, yes.

[briasoleil.livejournal.com]

I haven't been writing about the Israeli incursion into Gaza, though I was planning on an entry about it. Truthfully, the very thought of it makes me ill. I have a pit in my stomach every time I think about it. In other words, it's been extremely stressful. Which seems ridiculous, given that I'm but an observer from a safe place very faraway.

Nonetheless, it's been heartbreaking and heartwrenching to see the images and to read the reports. It seems impossible to think of that much willful violence against a people the entire world seems to have abandoned to its fate.

As much as I deplore Hamas' bombings, the continued occupation of Palestinian territories and Israel's insanely excessive show of force (truly an act of colonisation and a large-scale land grab) has me holding Israel in contempt. This is not a country protecting itself. These are war crimes, crimes against humanity and, I daresay, genocide. But I really don't expect much else from Israel. It's not for nothing that Archbishop Desmond Tutu and Nelson Mandela have both declared Israel's occupation tantamount to apartheid.

[kasuchi]

I'd also like to point out that Jon Stewart, of The Daily Show has been pointing out that Gaza hasn't had water in ages. I don't know if the show has been directly addressing the conflict or not - most likely not, to be honest - but comments like this make me wonder if the truly informed aren't fully aware of just what Israel is doing.

Honestly, it's distressing to hear that Gaza isn't getting food, water, or supplies for things like basic medicine. The smuggling tunnels - how most residents were (perilously) getting bare essentials - were bombed and collapsed. Those people in Gaza are, pardon my French, fucked, plain and simple.

[siraj.livejournal.com]

... I know I'm just one lousy American, and we here in the States have our own problems, but I feel the need to weigh in...

I know Hamas isn't the nicest of groups, that they've used some dirty tactics in SPADES... but I somewhat side with them on this one. Just barely, however. Israel fired the first shots, and Hamas retaliated. And Israel has overreacted so incredibly that it's hard to feel any sympathy for them. Nearly 800 dead in Gaza, about, what, a dozen of them Hamas or sympathizers, the rest civvies? Meanwhile there's a baker's dozen dead on Israel's side, one or two civilians on that end of things...

Do I like Hamas? no. But I really, REALLY hope something happens so that the Israeli politicos get a collective slap in the face and a "what the FUCK is wrong with you?!"


All that being said, that bit about the Norway STREET GANGS telling them how stupid they're being is AWESOME!

... wonder if you could get those guys to march together (without shots being fired) in united protest of the whole stupid affair?

[misscam.livejournal.com]

Yes, the problem with the Gaza Strip being so densely populated is that even if you aim for Hamas, you'll hit civilians too. Israel knows this, and have obviously decided Hamas matters more than the civilian casulties. I disagree.

I think the whole of Norway has had enough protests for a while, but the gangs did watch the thing and were the most peaceful part. Jeez.

[miri-d.livejournal.com]

I love reading your thoughts on the Israel/Palestine issue. They're so clear and well-developed! One of these days, I'm going to send them to Mom, because she's very set in her path and bullheaded and doesn't like to consider other perspectives...and yet she doesn't really have any good justification or ideas for supporting *her* side. Just severe oversimplifications.

...As I was typing that, I felt kind of like that statement is a Bushism itself. It sounds funny enough :\.

[misscam.livejournal.com]

Most of us have at least one opinion like that - kinda formed more on feeling than facts, and therefore harder to let go of.

Trust me, you'll have to work much harder to get to Bushism. They're that special.

[wendymr.livejournal.com]

Sometimes, I think the real hero is not the person willing to die for a casuse. It's the one who won't let others be killed in the name of it.

So true. We really, really need people like that in the world these days.

Thank you for a thoughtful, critical and unblinkered post about the Gaza issue. You're right: both Israel and Hamas are acting callously and without concern for human life, and it's the ordinary Palestinians, as always, who are caught in the middle.

I'm not going to get into my opinions on Israel's handling of the Palestinian territories over the years, but since working with immigrants to Canada I've had a new perspective on one part of the Palestinian situation I wasn't aware of before. There are, of course, Palestinian refugees scattered all over the Middle East. I've met people born and bred in Jordan, Lebanon and other countries - some of whose parents were also born there - who tell me that their nationality is Palestinian. They're not claiming that nationality through patriotism, but because it's the only nationality they have. They are not allowed to become citizens of the country they or their parents/grandparents fled to. In some countries, as non-citizens they are almost non-persons. As Palestinian refugees, even second- and third-generation, they are not allowed to attend university, or even own their own home. Many still live in refugee camps.

There's fault all round in the Middle East, certainly. But it shocked me that countries and governments who like to castigate Israel for its treatment of Palestinians can't even give those Palestinian resident in their own countries the dignity of treating them equally as citizens.

[misscam.livejournal.com]

Yes, I have heard of this. That's part of what I was thinking of when talking about countries in the regions using the Palestine conflict for their own reasons. Artifically keeping up a refugee problem is not helping the situation at all, it's putting even more pressure on it.

Really, it just show that so many of the governments are being completely hypocritical and only using Palestine as a part of the wider Arab-Israeli conflict.

It leaves Palestinian civilians screwed over either way, really.

[magika83.livejournal.com]

Ingvild Bryn i Dagsrevyen samme kveld: "Politiet brukte tåregass mot motdemonstrantar og no i kveld er det fakkeltog for ofra."

Auda.

[misscam.livejournal.com]

Jausann.

Roa seg nå da, men Oslo så ut som et helvete fredag morra.

[wintergreen126.livejournal.com]

But you can let someone live tomorrow.

amen. the whole thing is a mess, and i agree with you, both sides are at fault, but i'm also sympathetic to both. well, at least i'm sympathetic to the innocent people who just want to get on with their lives and instead find themselves as fodder in a conflict that seems to have no end in sight. i wish they'd stop with this all or nothing way of thinking, because compromises have to be made, otherwise well, it isn't going to be pretty. for anyone.

When even street gangs tell you off, you've sunk low.

when street gangs disapprove, you obviously fail. are people okay, there? like, no one got hurt or anything, right?

i hope you have a good weekend :o)

[misscam.livejournal.com]

Minor injuries only. More damage to property than anything else, luckily.

Yes. Especially the kids I just feel so horrified for. Those who get killed, those who will suffer severe trauma, those who will lose family members... It's not their fault adults are being fucking asshats.

[mademoisellenon.livejournal.com]

Sometimes, I think the real hero is not the person willing to die for a cause. It's the one who won't let others be killed in the name of it.

I have been following this conflict since it started. A lot of evil has already occurred, much more will happen. Children and women will be the first ones to pay and it is sickening. Wars are for trained soldiers, and even then, they are ugly, wretched events. But it's the innocents who always pay the first and the last price, and the tragedy is astounding.

I think it was one of those doctors from Norway, who said the scale of anguish and destruction is the worst he's ever seen in his life.

[chicklet73.livejournal.com]

Joe 'the Plummer' is reporting on the Irsaeli-Palestine conflict. Yes. because becoming a Republican campaign gimmick is truly a good qualifier for news reporting.

Yes. Did you see the interview in which, when asked how he prepared for his stint as a Very Official War Correspondent, he said he'd been watching the news a lot so he could learn how to "pronounciate" the names?

*HEADDESKS REPEATEDLY*