And in the beginning there was the Word...

[misscam]

Ah, blessed three words, how I love thee.

Story not found.

So inbetween various discussion of the many good things Olympic orgies might bring us (make countries bond and help relations among countries of the world for sure) and reading the lastest big discussion about Turimel's book on "Jordan Wood" and all that insanity, I got to thinking about words and the Net.

Now, some of you may now that words do matter to me. I believe words have power through the stories they tell and through what we use them for. And the Net is a world of words - and thus often a world of lies (and by this I don't mean white lies, but the more serious lies that have greater consequences). So you have Jordan Wood and Thalia and plagiarisers. Where does this leave the power of words? Does it cheapen even my words? It's a distressing thought to me. I am a person of words. I like to write, to read, to debate, to think. I submerge myself in worlds created merely by words and I create worlds of my own with my words. And my words is the gate to my mind, a gate I watch most carefully. I have tied my honour to my word and thus I expect people to trust it. But I wonder if this is not an unfair assumption.

So I'm wondering - how much do you trust people on the Net? Am I a silly, naive Norwegian with old-fashioned ideas of honour? (If you say yes, I promise not to smack you with a trout.) Or is trust and honour essential on the Net, this world of words?

Comments

[fondued-jicama.livejournal.com]

I tend to trust people. For example, I believe you are not a mass-murderer. I believe the pictures you showed us are really you, and not some poor kid you killed with a baseball bat.

My parents are on the very closed end of the scale- everyone's out to get me- and my mother's friend Judy is on the open end of the scale- she met a man online that she might be marrying. I'm in the middle. I wouldn't marry you, but I don't mistrust you. ;p

By the way, what is UP with people confusing 'lose' and 'loose?!' 'Tis annoying!

[misscam.livejournal.com]

. I wouldn't marry you, but I don't mistrust you. ;p

You're breaking my heart, Marcus :P

People confuse a lot of words that sound the same - accept/except, effect/affect... The list goes on. It does make for some... interesting reading sometimes.

[fondued-jicama.livejournal.com]

Oh, so now you have a change of heart, Susan? Well, I'm sorry. My badgers don't feel like speaking to you. ;D

I think I should merry this grate mail I met online, named Bart. I just do'nt no if I should except his offer- after al, its' going to effect my weigh in life from know on. Wait do ewe think? Is this a loose-loose situation?

...No comment.

[git-the-goddess.livejournal.com]

Let the sheep go and visit the doctor or you'll have to listen to me singing "Scotland's Depraved"...

[fondued-jicama.livejournal.com]

What's a 'Scotland's Depraved,' Precious?

[fondued-jicama.livejournal.com]

Ack...just so you know, I'm not stalking you. Family humour, there. *Grins sheepishly*

[misscam.livejournal.com]

You know I prefer ferrets :P I'll just go hook with G'Kar instead then and find my pleasure threshold.

Ow. Homonoyms hurt.

[fondued-jicama.livejournal.com]

Oh dear. I think that that's the ugliest little plot-bunny I've ever seen...ow...

Oh, hum. Most people I ask prefer ferrets. My badgers and I get along so well, though!

[psychicsaphie.livejournal.com]

You already know how I feel about this, as you taught me quite a bit about it, but I'll say it again: I think people should treat people online teh same way they treat them in real life, and they should be treating people well and being honest and real life, so...

I think honesty and integrity are important. I don't think people should be trusted completely, but that most can be trusted with ideas and thoughts and conversations, and those that can't be trusted normally give warning signs that they can't. If they don't, and they betray others, than those others are certainly within their rights not to trust them again.

I do not, however, believe in distrusting everyone because one person lied. There are plenty of liars in the world, and manipulators, ranging on a scale from relatively harmless to completely evil, but I don't think it's right to think everyone is one just because I've come across someone who is. I'll take what people say online with a grain of salt, and not trust many with personal info, but I won't be paranoid. It's just like real life: it may be possible to go through your life distrusting everyone, but while it's safe, it's a pretty crappy life.

[flamingofeather.livejournal.com]

I do not, however, believe in distrusting everyone because one person lied.

I agree with you wholeheartedly. I may be naive, but I trust most or all of the people I've met through the PPC and have on my friends list. They write well, they're all intelligent, and all have interesting insights.

There is no way that everyone I meet online that I have not met in "real life" is a stalker/sociopath; it's impossible. There are some online, of course. And these are the ones that make it into the news. The people that meet online, share similar interests, and develop friendships don't make it onto the news. No one cares about them. but it does happen. I don't see why it shouldn't happen online instead of in the real world. I'd trade about half the people I interact with weekly to see some of the people I met via the Internet. Unfortunately, my parents are waaay overprotective and even if I could explain to them why I wanted to meet up with someone, they'd nix it on general principles.

I mean, a little bit of paranoia, and definitely caution, is necessary. But isn't that the way everywhere? The world is dangerous. People you know and trust and see every day could turn out to be serial killers or compulsive liars or any damned thing.

Sometimes I think you can actually get more "credit" online, because people who consistently write good fanfiction, talk to others, help people, keep LJs, etc. are not considered stalker material by anyone.

[misscam.livejournal.com]

I would say that depends on the nature of their LJ and fanfics, really. I find some of the Tinhats rather stalkerish, for instance.

[misscam.livejournal.com]

I guess it boils down to 'trust with care'. Don't trust everyone but don't distrust everyone either. Same as in the real world.

It just seems to me a bit easier to lie online because in some ways you can escape the consequences of it. You can just reinvent yourself and start anew under a different name. You don't get that in Real Life. But online, all you have is your word and therefore, I think it important to honour.

[agent-tweed.livejournal.com]

I don't thing we can apply standards of trust and honor to internet communities the yway we might to real life communities. In real life communities transgressions usually have codified consequences. Here they clearly do not. Instead, in internet communities, it is often ones status that determines the amount of honor and even common decency that one is accorded, as a sort of proportional "currency".

Thalia for example, was a young girl with a very low status in the community. She had very little status. She transgressed the boundaries, was "shunned" for lack of a better word, and is gone. It was a long time ago, it is over, it is done. Little use to bring up a small thing like that now.

Meanwhile, under the aegis of several "high currency" players who formed an organization in the community, several persons of "lesser currency" have been insulted with quite unwarranted harsh anonymous commentary. When they sought redress through "proper channels", their requests were met at first with silence and then, when they were backed by a few other "leser currency" players, they received a rather lame second-hand passive-voiced half-apology, but not from the transgressor herself. Instead the organization protected their fellow "high currency" player and allowed her to retain anonymity. They are not speaking her name.

For all we know, Miss Weaver may be reading this LJ under an assumed name and seeing herself once again run up the flag pole as some example of "bad".

You are plagiarised and you will have 10-15 people to your immediate defense because you do hold community currency. That is the truth of the matter. I think this is good. it is not wrong. I wish every fanfic writer I knew who was poached got such backing.

Is there a court of arbitration for "lesser currency" writers who find themselves in similiar situations? What if they are poached by a "higher currency" player? I have had ideas, created events, allusions, similes, all combed from my writing.
Sure, I care, but not enough to make the stink that would ensue. Then again, no one "important" reads my writing if my reviews are anything to go by. And I have been told that my fic is crap by the best of the best.

[misscam.livejournal.com]

It was a long time ago, it is over, it is done. Little use to bring up a small thing like that now.

To some of us it does actually still matter what she did and was no small thing. I don't feel it's over for personal reason and thus I will bring her up as much as I damn well please, thank you very much. Feel free to ignore it, but don't tell me what is and is not a small thing *to me*.

As for the rest of the post - what exactly are you refering to? If you don't want to voice it here, e-mail or IM me or something. If you have a complaint against me, please do voice it.

And I would personally stick up for anyone who are plagiarised, regardless of standing. I did stick up for Thalia (even if it turned out to be faked) as did many, many of those who have stuck up for me. I think pretty much anyone who are plagiarised gets sympathy. Sure, I might get more calls of support than someone else in the same situation, but I think that has more to do with having a larger readership than anyone thinking it's worse that I get plagiarised than another author with perhaps a smaller readership. The word just gets spread more the more readers you have, me thinks.

[agent-tweed.livejournal.com]

Cam,

I did not voice what I was saying as a complaint against you. And I apologize that I took lightly what is of importance to you. This was not my intent. I suppose I should have used a third party incident as illustration but I did not. This is wholly my error.

As for the other matter, I am speaking of the late unpleasantness over the Mithril Award feedback and conduct springing therefrom. It is on their LJ. You can tract the threads there. Some fine writers were mauled in the process, writers with sensitivites and feelings that were wholly and callously disregarded. They sent "feedback" to semi-finalists and finalists. Did you know that a sami-finalist got a piece of feedback from a so-called judge calling her work "Self-indulgent crap"? Another person received so called feedback calling her work "trite, pretentious, and cliched" and another had her work called "weak and childish". now mind you these were the stories that made the cut! Can you imagine the absolute crap that did not and what was said about them?

Now mind you, these were NOT folks who had submitted their own work for consideration like some of us more arrogant types might be wont to do. These people were nominated by friends and fellow writers who thought they were doing something nice. Nobody in the loop asked to be insulted. The awards touted themselves as some paragon and people expected they would behave in a manner befitting. Instead some judges used the scheme as an anonymous cover to hurl insult. And they were allowed to remain anonymous. These anonymous few tainted the whole thing for many. So not only were the writers hurt but so were the innocent nominators and a whole pile of other judges who did their level best to provide constructive and Politely Worded feedback. The record is at their LJ if you want to see real ugly in action.

So this is where I am coming from, trying to do my part to help a couple of writers back to their feet with a few laughs, trying to do my part to keep some folks from doubting themselves too much. But these are good people who have been unsulted and it pisses me off that a group of self-appointed nabobs think it is within their right to anonymously flambee others under some "official mithril sanction". It is a mark of highest dishonor and shame.

At least with the anonymous trolls who drop bad reviews on archive sites or ffn, it is something most people just can write off as a jerk being a jerk. But when it comes from an organization purporting to have "standards" it is a wholly different matter.

[misscam.livejournal.com]

Ah, okay. Apology accept. And I'm sorry I got testy, I've just had people tell me get over the whole thing before, as if they were in charge of my life and my priorities.

As for the Mithril Awards - well, I have gathered there was some big controversy about both the process and the winners. I don't really have all the facts and thus haven't formed an opinion on it, but you've made me curious. I think I shall have a looksie - I know OFUM was one of the finalists in the first MA, but I wasn't in the second one, thus I really had no experience with it. Nor did I pay attention at the time - University graduation and all. Perhaps just as well, in retrospect. It sounds like it got quite messy.

I do wonder if part of it is embroiled with personal vendettas - some of the people on opposing sides I certainly have seen being opponents before.

[darksylvia.livejournal.com]

I think it's one of those "shades of grey" situations.

All of my personal experiences with trusting (and meeting) internet people have been positive. But then you hear scary things like the pedophiles who lure young girls in or the sociopaths who have 30 personalities working together to create havoc.

I would say the amount of time you've been in contact with the person is a good indicator, except your own experience with Thalia proved that wrong.

I guess the only thing to do is trust your judgment at the time, and not be afraid to do it again even if the first event goes badly, but go with a little more knowledge.

It's such a tricky thing, the internet. You talked about worlds of words, and I can sympathize because I revel in other people's words, and I revel in my own. How strange is it then, that the internet is a literal world of words?

Also, not that this is comforting, you really have no guarantees in real life that the people you are trusting are good and honest. I think both the real world and the internet world hold the possibility of friendship and betrayal.

If you stop assuming that others are honest in their words, it will be worse for you than for the untrustworthy. Don't let them win.

[misscam.livejournal.com]

Oh, I prefer to trust people and risk getting burned - my concern was more that my idea of having honour tied to your words was a rather silly notion on the Internet. The Internet is a curious thing, after all, and it's different things to different people and thus people will have different notions about what words mean here. To some they matter more than others.

[belegcuthalion.livejournal.com]

Well... I think the rules in "Real Life" and the Net are not that different. I found most of the "Net"-friends I got to know during the last year through their stories, and to only a handful of them I've built a kind of closer relationship. I don't know how most of them look like, and I will probably never be able to sit with them in a café. But I think I can judge them like I can judge people I really meet - from their words, their behaviour with others, the way they tell their stories, the way they answer my emails. Therefore I meanwhile think I know whom to trust and who to honour.

Ah, blessed three words, how I love thee.
Story not found.

Ah yesss.

[misscam.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I'm also fairly picky with whom I allow to get to know me as something more than my online persona. Not necessarily because of distrust, but I've always been careful guarding the gate to Camillaland, so to speak. Because once they're in, evicting becomes a painful process. So I'd rather be careful. And just because you like someone or their writing doesn't mean you think they're the kind of people you want in your life. Advantage of the Internet, I guess - you can 'hang out' with 'friends' that you need not invest that much emotionally in.

[irian.livejournal.com]

I tend to be very trusting of people in general, which is why I often end up getting burned sooner or later. But the thing about the net that I like is the relative anonymity it affords me, wherein I can be more myself than in real life because there are no restrictions or preconceived expectations that I have to conform to.

But then, there's the catch. If the net allows us to be more ourselves than real life, by the same token it allows us to be more *not* ourselves as well.

So I think that excercising an amount of caution would be wise, considering that we've never really met a lot of the people we interact with on the net, not have we observed how they act in real life.

[misscam.livejournal.com]

But then, there's the catch. If the net allows us to be more ourselves than real life, by the same token it allows us to be more *not* ourselves as well.

That's actually very well put. The Internet is probably one of the only places you can be what you make yourself to be. Real Life comes with a lot more luggage.

I wonder if how content one is with one's Real Life self has an impact on how much 'ourselves' we are on the Net?

[irian.livejournal.com]

I wonder if how content one is with one's Real Life self has an impact on how much 'ourselves' we are on the Net?

I think that people who are conetent with their RL selves are more likely to be themselves on the net than those who aren't. People who aren't satisfied with who they are in real life might be more likely to use the net as a means for escapism, reinventing themselves into the person they *want* to be.

[misscam.livejournal.com]

*nods*

But I also think that people who are generally happy with their RL selfmight use the Net to play out other sides of their personality just to try it, you know?

[erhothwen.livejournal.com]

I pretty much am rather trusting of people on LJ Friend's list and it really depends on who the person is. I think I might trust a teenager running a fandom website (Harry Potter, Lord of the Rings, take a pick) like the crew for TORn or Mugglenet than a person on Ebay, out of a slight fandom bias.

I guess it all just depends. *not a straight-forward answer*

[misscam.livejournal.com]

I guess it all just depends.

That's humankind for you, summed up on six litte words.

[cloudofcalm.livejournal.com]

The world is weird, and large, and strange. People walk along its streets with their elbows out, jostling one another as they are scared themselves that someone else will knock them down and they'll get walked on. I think lies are tissue thin when we conceive them, a dressing for bodies that are still raw. People who lie are covering themselves, but it's flawed armour.

The TW situation I know as reference was made to it later, and I went back and read her journal. It seems like another example of net-facade. The net is the wide blue nowhere, a place where you don't have to be the person pigeon-holed in life. Wit and confidence are easier to produce when the person you're talking to hums, and flashes lights. And although there are hundreds of thousands of people out there, it is still the lonliest place in the world. You can feel insignificant when confronted with so many people who have gained acceptance and recognition out there. I have struggled when writing good stories and not getting feedback. i can understand why she did it, and also why she confessed.

I don't trust people on the net, I'm warned, I never give out personal details or even my name unless I have performed little 'tests' on people. But then again, I trust people far more. I can confide in the friends I cannot see, the friends who understand far more than the friends who yawn because I am self involved, who are more interested in discussing themselves.

So yes, and no. Words are incredibly powerful, but it is the individual who makes them so.

[misscam.livejournal.com]

You can feel insignificant when confronted with so many people who have gained acceptance and recognition out there.

I think everyone at some points feel like that. I know I have. But while I can on some level understand why this might drive someone to pull an attention-stunt, I still feel hurt when lied to. Life's not fair, but lying will not even the scales.

Words are incredibly powerful, but it is the individual who makes them so.

That's one way to put it. I guess that is what my idea of 'honour tied to my word' is essentially about - if the person does not honour his words, the words lose power.

[the-factionlair.livejournal.com]

Words are precious, sacred, lies desecrate these sacred things, and that truly is sad. Therefore, I believe that, although some people on the internet with no respect for words, most are good and true. Since I have this belief, I believe what people tell me until they are proven wrong.

[misscam.livejournal.com]

Ah, the Optimist. May you never be disappointed.

[visp.livejournal.com]

I listen, but I don't really trust any of it. On the other hand, I don't not trust it, it's just... I bear in mind that it could all be fake, and enjoy it anyways.

But that's just me, and I'm deeply cynical.

[arabel.livejournal.com]

But that's just me, and I'm deeply cynical.

*waves* Nice to meet another one. I think what you've said sums up how I feel about words and the internet.

Even when I've known someone for a long time online, there's still that niggling thought that perhaps it's not what it seems. Because as everyone has said, it's so easy for it to be that way.

Which is a shame. Words should have meaning, weight, and honour.

[visp.livejournal.com]

Words should have meaning, weight, and honour.

Yes, they should, but many things in life are not what they should be. I agree with Cam on the Thalia thing, and while it didn't offend me greatly, (just because I didn't care that much, and kept the "she could be making all this shit up" in mind) I think that she's more than entitled to feel the way she did.

[misscam.livejournal.com]

Thanks.

[visp.livejournal.com]

No problem. If someone's been lying on a repeated basis for months about important things, making up stories and generally blowing smoke, I see no reason why you should be expected to brush it all off and say "well, that doesn't matter, I'm sure you won't do it again". If I had actually cared and gotten involved in that matter, I'd be hella pised too.

[arabel.livejournal.com]

I definitely agree with her on the Thalia thing too. As you said below, I wasn't too involved, however had I been, I would have honestly had a similar reaction.

Yes, they should, but many things in life are not what they should be.

And a hearty "word" to that as well.

[bodldops.livejournal.com]

I tend to have a 'guilty until proven innocent' outlook on people on the net. There are a few people I now trust completely - Artemis, 'Wen, and a few of the other PPCers. There are some people I sort of trust - I don't believe they have an agenda, and will tell the truth, but I won't willingly let myself be drawn into anything. People I don't know are met with outright suspicion. Paranoid? Yes. Perhaps I'm poorer for it.

[misscam.livejournal.com]

Perhaps, perhaps not. It's sometimes hard to tell. It depends howmuch you'd be screwed over if you weren't paranoid, I suppose.

[bjam1402.livejournal.com]

Hmm... Considering I just came back from a foreign country for the single purpose of meeting people online I guess that kinda shows what my answer will be like.

I trust people differently. Someone like BeautyID who I've known for A Long Time, I trust completely. She knows near everything about me, and we've probably spent a total of... four or five days together in 'real life'. Not that much time really. I mean, in a way, you could meet someone in a bar, date them for three months and they could turn out to be someone completely different. Everyone has the oppurtnity to lie online and offline, you just have to be careful that you don't get sucked into someone. I mean, BeautyID could be an axe-murdering Canadian, even though I've met her twice, and we're best friends. She still could be someone completely different. heck, you could be some 40 year old guy who's giggling to himself because he knows all these young girls around the world.

But overall I do trust people. Probably too much. I'm wary of certain people. Like there are certain PPCers I'd be... wary to meet. Even some of my good friends that I know on the 'Net I'm wary of meeting in real life. I think that's more paranoia than trust... Or do they go together? I dunno. Life is complicated, neh?

[misscam.livejournal.com]

It is indeed. And the danger of meeting some you like online is that you find out that in RL life, you don'tmuch like them at all. Other personality traits that you just don't see online can come into play. On the other hand, you could hit it off even better in RL.

Calculated risk, I guess.

[sinneahtes.livejournal.com]

Does someone else's lie cheapen other people's words? Well... in a way, I guess... I mean, if someone else lies, and I can tell you don't know that when you pass it along to me, of course I don't think your words are cheapened. But unfortunately, since enough people out there have lied in malicious enough ways, yeah, other people's words do get cheapened because anyone who tends to learn from these experiences might become a little more wary or cynical and your words might not mean as much as they would have otherwise (unless it's something like they know you're the ONLY person who has never lied to them and that means something special to the person). But in most cases, I think that might be a "back of the mind" thing -- I'm pretty sure you are who you say you are despite my knowing next to zilch about you, but I have to keep in the back of my mind that you could just as easily be one of the retired Swedish people next door. :P

Though unfortunately flat out lies (as in falsehoods the teller knows and believes are falsehoods) aren't the only ways words are cheapened. Sometimes I can think less of a person's words (whether I should or shouldn't) just by hearing them give one too many bigoted "facts" -- I mean, when someone on a message board I used to visit came on and started going off about how stupid Irish people are, then I stopped feeling that their words had value. Everyone has their moments or prejudices, but they cheapen the person's words, IMHO.

How much do I trust people on the net? Well, while I was staying in Ireland I seriously started making plans to go spend a couple of days at a Dutch friend's house, despite the fact that I a) would have been traveling alone as a young woman in a European country I'd never been to and b) had never met this person face to face before, if that says anything. (At that point my parents stepped in and said, "Without an escort? Don't you dare." ^_^;) But if you say you're Camilla Sandman, I believe it until I have reason not to.

Words mean a lot to me too, considering that they're really the only power I have in the world. I mean hey, I'm a creative writing major at the moment (and therefore I'd better know how to use words and how they'll affect people), and possibly going for a masters degree in International Relations in a couple years or so (and International Relations is not an area of study or work I think I'll find it safe to make bullshit up in). I'm already frustrated at our government's way of communicating to people (from shameless spinning to what I recall as being flat out lies), I certainly don't want to cheapen my own words like that.

It does tie into trust and honor, I think. Why? Because most people online who are in junior high or high school are aware of the fact that there are other people on the other side of the internet that they are talking to, and that you don't just lie to people. As long as that awareness is there, you have no excuse for lying or cheapening your words, because people should also know you're human and therefore there will be trust involved. Break it, and it's every bit as bad as if it had been broken face to face. But maybe I'm just a silly little... um, whatever whose parents did their best to raise her as an honest, polite person.

Ugh... hope that made sense, just got back from a vacation involving a 12 hour car trip to Ohio (and another one back from) to be surrounded by Bush-liking relatives and my brain is mush. -_-;

[misscam.livejournal.com]

Me, be Swedish? You insult me :P

Yeah, you're probably right about bigotry reducing the worth of someone's word. recently, I got into a discussion with an American who threw around a whole bunch of insults towards Scandinavians because we'd allowed gay marriages. I do think the guy actually meant it and as such didn't lie, but I sure as hell didn't consider his words much worth after that.

And my symapthies on spending time with Bush-liking relatives. Have you considered disowning them and let yourself be adopted? ;)(Kidding, kidding!)

[sinneahtes.livejournal.com]

I think you're no more Swedish than I am. :P

-_-; Anything to put down gay marriage in the US? Pfft. Annoying how scared some people are of the idea. :P But a really stupid idea: saying on a message board where a red-haired girl in Connecticut and her Guinness-loving friend in a town near Boston can read, "The Irish have IQs of 60!" Say goodbye to your head before we rip it off if you really want to try. ^_^;

Heehee :) Luckily, my siblings and Mom are relatively Bush-hating and Dad doesn't rant against war protesters or anti-Bushites so I don't have to live with this sort of thing. At least it felt good listening to Mom explain why she thought Rumsfeld was an idiot to an uncle who ranted about all the people who thought Rumsfeld was an idiot. ^_^

[shandydann]

Yes you are naive, but not silly, trust is important where ever you are. I always trust first, but as I get older it takes a bit longer to trust folks.

People must always strive to act with honor, just because we are in a virtual world and most of us wont ever meet each other, trust and honor are still important. People still have to act with honor and give credit where credit is due.

[misscam.livejournal.com]

*raises an eyebrow*

Well, blunt and to the point, I guess.

[shandydann]

If I said anything to offend, I didn't mean too. I tend to be quite blunt. In the years that I have been on the net, I've seen it change quite a bit, at times it can feel like being back at highschool.

[norwegianne.livejournal.com]

Trust on the net? Well, when I began surfing the net (in '94/'95, I think it was...) I was 12-13 years old. Then I rarely used my real name (though some of the first fanfiction I wrote can still be found out there with the full name on it... not by my choice but because of the e-mail set-up dad did, all e-mail went out with full name...) Now? Well, I don't really use my full real name, but as I've discovered about 100 other people around the world with the same first and last names I have no qualms about using them together in my e-mail address. Having a rather unusual last name for a Norwegian, I'm sure there are things I could do differently. But truth to be told: I don't really see a whole lot of foreign people traveling to Norway exclusively to meet me... and the Norwegian ones I have gotten to know on the net aren't that anxious to get together either. (Well... except for one guy...)

I do trust the people I've spent much time with online, ie. the people I've known for more than a year, and communicated with over all the time. The new ones who've come along after that... well... it'll take time. I'm not distrusting anybody without any evidence. Nor am I overly trusting.

But I don't think it's a crime if people figure out my real name. (Depends on the people, probably...)

[mademoisellenon.livejournal.com]

Trust and honour is needed in everything but that's a little too idealistic, no? In my experience, people on the Net are much the way they are in their real lives; if they're liars and hypocrites, they won't transform into wonderful human beings on-line. People really do suck sometimes...grrr