Scream, ashes and bombs
Aug. 24th, 2004 10:18 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
misscamSome bastards have robbed the Munch museum and made off with "Scream" and "Madonna". (Read more about it here and the paintings here.) It's not actually the first time this painting has been stolen, nor is it the only paiting (Munch did five version of "Scream"), but still... Norwegian national treasure is a bit of a bugger to lose.
In better news, Norway won two gold medals in Athens this weekend. Huzzah for tiny, tiny us!
Yesterday I went to the early premiere of Farenheit 9/11. They had a little political debate first, with representatives of the Progress Party, Chhristian's People Party (who is in the coaltion government with the Conservatives), Centre Party and the Socialist Left Party. Out of them only the Progress Party supported the war in Iraq, which I guess is a fitting image of how Norway itself felt on the war - a pretty darn large majority was opposed to any non-UN sanctioned war. (And even with approval, opinion was divided.) But the various representatives all had interesting stuff to say - I missed some of the debate pre-war in Norway because I was in Australia. It was interesting to hear it now in light of all that has happened since - even the Progress Party slammed the US pretty hard for what had been done after the war. (The comment that got the biggest laugh though, was the Christian People Party's representative talking about how Norway had been firm in its no to the war even, quote "after the American ambassadors... um... eh... speech that Norway was endangering it relationship with the US by not supporting the war." We all laughed because it was obvious the guy was looking for a word that would not sound terribly insulting to the Ambassador while he was thinking, as we were, "that asshole!" The speech of the American Ambassador around the time of the war did didn't exactly warm Norwegians to the Bush administration, let me tell you. We all remember it non-fondly. You can read about it here. Of course, the Ambassador a year later said we hadn't damaged the relationship after all and some time after that urged us to increase oli production. Hmmmhmmm.)
Now, the movie... I went with my brother, who very much liked it. And I will admit so did I. As a *movie*. Moore was persuasive in his arguments, but that does not make him right. Nor does it make the movie a shining beacon of truth. But then, I don't know how much the prelude to the Iraq war or the aftermath has been covered in the US and how much Americans know.
The movie was highly effective in its editing and the bombing of Baghdad was downright painful to watch. The slam of the bombs made me literally jump in my seat. This they call 'precision bombing'? 'Humane warfare'? The word 'humane' should not be allowed within a mile of the word 'war'. A war can be neccessary, a war might be justified, a war can be forced upon you - but it is never ever humane. War kills. Innocents and soldiers alike. A bomb can't tell the difference and sometimes, neither can soldiers. Of course, what the movie did not touch upon was Saddam's past sins. It only briefly talked about the American support of Saddam in the 80s and mentioned nothing of the Shia uprising after the first Gulf War and how the US did not intervene. It's always been to me an interesting issue because I wonder how much this has played in on current Shia distrust of the US. But Moore's never been one for more complicated sides of an issue. A strength and a weakness both, I suppose.
The editiong was certainly not doing Bush any favours, but I did feel a strange sort of pity for him at times. It was also interesting to hear and see stuff from 9/11 again. The falling ashes made me want to weep. I was revisited by all that pity and sympathy I felt for the US at the time and it struck me just how quickly it had eroded within years of being subject to Bush's foreign policy. All that goodwill simply went away. I'm not even sure it can come back. I worry sometimes that all this intense dislike for Bush is tainting my impression of everyday Americans. It would not be fair or right, but I'm only human. Painful to think of.
The bit with the mother who had lost her son in Iraq was also painful. It was painful to hear her say "no parent should have to bury their child" (a line echoed in Two Towers, interestingly enough). I have no children, but if I had lost my brother in Iraq, I would have gone beserk. Especially since I did not agree with the war. How hard is it to lose someone to something you feel had no point? (But by Odin, how I wanted to smack Michael Moore at one point where he was standing in frame and looking all sympathic and speaking in a sad voice when talking to her. Her alone was strong enough. Don't be a grief-vampire.) The various bits with the soldiers were interesting. I do read![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
ginmar's livejournal, and I do wonder about everyday soldier's impression of the Iraq war. It's hard to see it amongst all the propaganda (Bush and Moore's). It would have been interesting to contrast the American soldier's viewpoints against Iraqi fighters' views on why they fight the Americans. But this was after all an American movie for an American audience.
And why Bush administration refuse to allow pictures of American caskets to be shown, which was repeated in the movie, is a very pointed question. These people died for *you*, Bush. You ordered them there. You call them heroes. Blair at least has the decency to allow photos to be shown of British fallen, allow the cost of war to be seen, allow their sacrifice to be known, allow tributes in their honour. Where are you, Bush?
So all in all, I did like it. Not because I agree with Moore on everything - sometimes I even find him painfully pointed on one thing and blind to more complicated sides of an issue - but it made me think. Some of it was potent, some of it was not. And for a moment I did feel the sympathy for American and its citizens that I have no felt in quite a while. And I did laugh at some things, were angered by others, annoyed by certain remarks and found myself nodding to some parts. And yes, I did shed a few tears. It was a good movie. It was an effective movie. But is it a documentary and utterly truthful in all it says? No, I think not. It's a viewpoint and it does raise pointed questions. But even pointed questions can have complicated answers. It's not always simple, not always black and white. Bush is not always the villain and Moore always the hero nor is the opposite true.
And I wonder if any remaining goodwill I have towards the US will survive four more years of Bush and his foreign policy. Somehow, I think not. How about you?
In better news, Norway won two gold medals in Athens this weekend. Huzzah for tiny, tiny us!
Yesterday I went to the early premiere of Farenheit 9/11. They had a little political debate first, with representatives of the Progress Party, Chhristian's People Party (who is in the coaltion government with the Conservatives), Centre Party and the Socialist Left Party. Out of them only the Progress Party supported the war in Iraq, which I guess is a fitting image of how Norway itself felt on the war - a pretty darn large majority was opposed to any non-UN sanctioned war. (And even with approval, opinion was divided.) But the various representatives all had interesting stuff to say - I missed some of the debate pre-war in Norway because I was in Australia. It was interesting to hear it now in light of all that has happened since - even the Progress Party slammed the US pretty hard for what had been done after the war. (The comment that got the biggest laugh though, was the Christian People Party's representative talking about how Norway had been firm in its no to the war even, quote "after the American ambassadors... um... eh... speech that Norway was endangering it relationship with the US by not supporting the war." We all laughed because it was obvious the guy was looking for a word that would not sound terribly insulting to the Ambassador while he was thinking, as we were, "that asshole!" The speech of the American Ambassador around the time of the war did didn't exactly warm Norwegians to the Bush administration, let me tell you. We all remember it non-fondly. You can read about it here. Of course, the Ambassador a year later said we hadn't damaged the relationship after all and some time after that urged us to increase oli production. Hmmmhmmm.)
Now, the movie... I went with my brother, who very much liked it. And I will admit so did I. As a *movie*. Moore was persuasive in his arguments, but that does not make him right. Nor does it make the movie a shining beacon of truth. But then, I don't know how much the prelude to the Iraq war or the aftermath has been covered in the US and how much Americans know.
The movie was highly effective in its editing and the bombing of Baghdad was downright painful to watch. The slam of the bombs made me literally jump in my seat. This they call 'precision bombing'? 'Humane warfare'? The word 'humane' should not be allowed within a mile of the word 'war'. A war can be neccessary, a war might be justified, a war can be forced upon you - but it is never ever humane. War kills. Innocents and soldiers alike. A bomb can't tell the difference and sometimes, neither can soldiers. Of course, what the movie did not touch upon was Saddam's past sins. It only briefly talked about the American support of Saddam in the 80s and mentioned nothing of the Shia uprising after the first Gulf War and how the US did not intervene. It's always been to me an interesting issue because I wonder how much this has played in on current Shia distrust of the US. But Moore's never been one for more complicated sides of an issue. A strength and a weakness both, I suppose.
The editiong was certainly not doing Bush any favours, but I did feel a strange sort of pity for him at times. It was also interesting to hear and see stuff from 9/11 again. The falling ashes made me want to weep. I was revisited by all that pity and sympathy I felt for the US at the time and it struck me just how quickly it had eroded within years of being subject to Bush's foreign policy. All that goodwill simply went away. I'm not even sure it can come back. I worry sometimes that all this intense dislike for Bush is tainting my impression of everyday Americans. It would not be fair or right, but I'm only human. Painful to think of.
The bit with the mother who had lost her son in Iraq was also painful. It was painful to hear her say "no parent should have to bury their child" (a line echoed in Two Towers, interestingly enough). I have no children, but if I had lost my brother in Iraq, I would have gone beserk. Especially since I did not agree with the war. How hard is it to lose someone to something you feel had no point? (But by Odin, how I wanted to smack Michael Moore at one point where he was standing in frame and looking all sympathic and speaking in a sad voice when talking to her. Her alone was strong enough. Don't be a grief-vampire.) The various bits with the soldiers were interesting. I do read
ginmar's livejournal, and I do wonder about everyday soldier's impression of the Iraq war. It's hard to see it amongst all the propaganda (Bush and Moore's). It would have been interesting to contrast the American soldier's viewpoints against Iraqi fighters' views on why they fight the Americans. But this was after all an American movie for an American audience. And why Bush administration refuse to allow pictures of American caskets to be shown, which was repeated in the movie, is a very pointed question. These people died for *you*, Bush. You ordered them there. You call them heroes. Blair at least has the decency to allow photos to be shown of British fallen, allow the cost of war to be seen, allow their sacrifice to be known, allow tributes in their honour. Where are you, Bush?
So all in all, I did like it. Not because I agree with Moore on everything - sometimes I even find him painfully pointed on one thing and blind to more complicated sides of an issue - but it made me think. Some of it was potent, some of it was not. And for a moment I did feel the sympathy for American and its citizens that I have no felt in quite a while. And I did laugh at some things, were angered by others, annoyed by certain remarks and found myself nodding to some parts. And yes, I did shed a few tears. It was a good movie. It was an effective movie. But is it a documentary and utterly truthful in all it says? No, I think not. It's a viewpoint and it does raise pointed questions. But even pointed questions can have complicated answers. It's not always simple, not always black and white. Bush is not always the villain and Moore always the hero nor is the opposite true.
And I wonder if any remaining goodwill I have towards the US will survive four more years of Bush and his foreign policy. Somehow, I think not. How about you?
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
O_O creepy
Date: 2004-08-30 09:43 pm (UTC)Eh, don't mind me, I'm a socialist, and also v, v, tired.