Adapting to fandom and other thoughts

[misscam]

Life. Blah. I shan't bore you with details, but BLAH I say. Blah!

First package of Who merchandise has arrived though, so yay. And customs didn't tax me after all, so thank you, state of Norway. Wee Ten is now mine, as well as the books (signed, not bad). Course, what I really want are the audio books, which are read by David Tennant, but not out till early July. BBC is such a mean tease.

Meanwhile, a question for you Brits - I have heard good things about Life on Mars, and it is very soon out on DVD - so should I fork over yet more money to the BBC and get it? Any other recs while at it?

And the answer to how far you can push the line in Supernatural fandom is... Not that far.

Doctor Who fandom - at least my corner of it - hasn't really had anything much in that vein, though there was a bit of a rapefic bruhahaha at GAFF. Humhum. I have noticed that my own lines have shifted a bit, though. Years ago I was all "RPF is wrooooong!", now I'm all "eh" and find it creepy at times, but mostly just whatever floats one's boat (or as I said to vaskalcorp today, "let he who is without kink throw the first stone"). Does fandom adapt you, I wonder?

So apparently Bush snubbed the Norwegian PM

*eyeroll* Always nice to be reminded how wee we really are. Of course, watch the US tell us we should increase oil output again next week. Then we're suddenly important. Hah. Bite me, Bush. I'll give you socialism germs.

And finally, for today's meme: In your fandom(s) of choice, what is the line you think most of the fandom would react badly to being crossed and why? Or has it already occured? I am curious.

Comments

[vaskalcorp.livejournal.com]

Discworld - A graphic description of Nanny Ogg/Cassanunda sex, complete with sound effects. Leave it at the fade to black line, please!

[misscam.livejournal.com]

Meow?

[boz4pm.livejournal.com]

RPF squicks me. I think Sue RPF I don't have a problem with (one of the only times Sues don't) since that's pure 'if I could meet them and have Teh Hawt Smex', which is fair enough and in many ways a darn sight more honest and easier to cope with than bampfing themselves into Rivendell so they can snog Legolas (or whatever).

It's the RPF stuff that involves 'interaction' between actors that gets me. Probably cos I've been in the business and know how freaked I'd be if that was done to me. I'd be pretty freaked by the Sue stuff too, but I would understand it on some level.

[boz4pm.livejournal.com]

Oh, and re. your meme: I think just about anything and everything has happened in LOTR, and not all in jest, sad to say. I could think of so many things that have 'crossed the line' - Nazgul porn and Legolas shagging orcs being top among them.

[misscam.livejournal.com]

Eh. RPF tends to wigg me out when it touches on families of actors and such, people who are not in the public eye much. Like fics where Orlando Bloom is abused as a child or what-not. Depends a bit what I find to be the author's intent with it all as well, with me.

[immoralilly.livejournal.com]

No wai! Supernatural finally had RPS wank? I knew our time would come.

What exactly happened? (Sorry to ask, but web blocker doesn't like f_w, unsurprisingly.)

[misscam.livejournal.com]

Supernatural had fanfic wank. A fic was written about one brother forcing the other to yank him off while they were kids. People got wigged.

[20thcenturyvole.livejournal.com]

Re: Life On Mars - Yes, yes, a thousand times yes, it's completely worth it. I downloaded the first episode out of curiousity and it proceeded to eat my life for a fortnight afterwards. It really is a wonderful show, and it will pull your emotional strings as if you are a tiny helpless puppet.

If you're still unsure, download the first episode and see what you think. It only gets better.

[20thcenturyvole.livejournal.com]

And there's a meme! I missed that the first time around.

My chief fandom is Stargate: Atlantis, which has been likened to the fannish equivalent of a huge drunken Mardi Gras. It is the fandom where you scroll down your flist, see wingfic, ninjas, animal transformations, bodyswaps and so on, and think, "Aw. When are they going to do something new?"

[vulgarweed.livejournal.com]

Fandom definitely changes you. It's like building up a tolerance to alcohol, really. I have a high tolerance after all these years, so I'm an expensive date.

Actor RPF doesn't so much squick me as bore me - I just don't think most actors are really very interesting people, unlike the characters they might play. But politician slash, now...:D

I think Good Omens is the only fandom I'm in that might have some uncrossed lines left. Can't imagine that Aziraphale/Crowley rapefic or chan involving the wee ickle Antichrist being molested by anyone would go over well. Actually, once when I was co-modding a holiday exchenge and we had a lot of deadbeats, my co-mod and I had a blast squicking ourselves royally with story ideas like this in case some participants turned out to deserve a serious lump of coal in their stocking.

[boz4pm.livejournal.com]

Politican slash?! O.o Ai, the horror! It burns!

[dune-drd.livejournal.com]

Go watch Life on Mars. NOW. (I would add a better review of the show, but its pure concept leaves me speechless.)

[misscam.livejournal.com]

Heh, so noted.

[aervir.livejournal.com]

Meanwhile, a question for you Brits - I have heard good things about Life on Mars, and it is very soon out on DVD - so should I fork over yet more money to the BBC and get it? Any other recs while at it?

Well, not a Brit, just a wee German with too much spare time and a predilection or British telly programmes, but, yeah, Life is Mars is simply brilliant.
It's a fandom with canonical bondage sex on LSD -- that probably sums it up. And you don't neceassrily have to order the DVDs to watch it -- I'm just sayin'... :)

And I found Ultraviolet, a 1998 mini-series about an anti-vampire special taskforce, pretty cool, too.

[misscam.livejournal.com]

Yes, I know. But I feel naughty enough already having my friend Kit Borrent help me with Doctor Who, and I have the money, so if it's good, might as well get the DVD. (I got The Office yesterday.)

Hum, interesting...

[darksylvia.livejournal.com]

I was just waiting for an SPN wank. And that is one sick story, man.

PS: Do you have a rec list for Doctor Who fics? Because I just started watching and want to wade into the fanfiction, but it's a little daunting.

[misscam.livejournal.com]

Sure do. Here and here will get you a starting point, at least.

[puredeadthingy.livejournal.com]

Hmm...Life On Mars was good for the first few episodes, but it was only meant to run for one series. Then it was so popular they decided to run it for another one...so the last episode is a cop-out. But it's worth checking out.

[misscam.livejournal.com]

Oki doki.

[oddlyfamiliar.livejournal.com]

Wow. I think the best part of that wank was the person that replied with the whole condon/engourage thing. That made me laugh so much, unlike the fic. That made me throw up in my mouth a little.

As far as Life on Mars goes, I've barely even watched an episode of it, but what I did see was pretty damn good. As for other recs, Green Wing is freaking hysterical. It's set in a hospital, but it is practically a sketch show - the most random things happen. I'd recommend DLing the first episode to see if you like it, then buyy the first series :)

[misscam.livejournal.com]

I'm so a fandom old hag now, cos the fic only made my roll my eyes. I think my innocence might've died.

My good friend Kit Borrent might have to go into service again, heh.

Thanks!

[velocityofsound.livejournal.com]

The only thing that seems to make Grissom/Sara really wanky is when stories are labeled with G/S, but have other relationships involved and there are a few people who get their panties in a twist. But I've seen explicit assault fantasies and non-con, intense BDSM, Grissom slaughtering a pregnant Sara, and even threeways with Greg (cough) that were pretty well accepted by the audience, and in some cases rather popular. It's funny, because it's a fandom that's half rather accepting (or flat-out a fan) of occasional dark material, and half people who demand fluffy bunnies or else.

You know a fandom is a little off when "mislabeling" is the #1 beef. But that's the thing I see wanked the most. People getting pissed off there's Heather or Catherine subtext, or character death, without a big neon sign flashing at the beginning of the fic.

Not counting the crazy shipper fen, who spend their time rabidly and incoherently trying to tear down the female not in their ship. But those are pretty ubiquitous in the fandom. I think most of us on either side just roll our eyes instead of wanking. Tazzer, babydoll, whoever. The Greatest Hits.

[misscam.livejournal.com]

Heh. because we all know if you read a G/C fic by mistake, TPTB will kill Grissom/Sara forever and it'll be ALL YOUR FAULT.

Howeever, while Tazzer and babydoll are fairly obvious in their ways, I've seen subtly knocking the other female down quite often even in more mainstream fics. Hum.

[dalinae.livejournal.com]

I think Bush is still sore from the spanking Colbert brought on at the Correspondents' Dinner. Dubya won't be himself for a few weeks now (which, knowing the himself he actually is, is not a bad thing at all).

[misscam.livejournal.com]

Huh, what was that about? Must've missed it.

[lucia-tanaka.livejournal.com]

In your fandom(s) of choice, what is the line you think most of the fandom would react badly to being crossed and why? Or has it already occured?

Doctor Who - I dunno, but I'm betting there's a squick out there for Mickey/Ten or Mickey/Rose fic, due to the scary OTP.

Numb3rs - Um, the fandom is 99.999% incest, so really the OTP I write for is the most shocking thing. ("Omfg, Don/Charlie is love!" "There's brothers, you wackos! Leave me to my geeky OTP, damn you!")

SGA - Nothing. Literally, nothing could shock this fandom. We've had wingfic, deathfic, apocafic, WELL-WRITTEN rape-fic (I know, it's shocking), losing half the OTP, torture, really bad torture, bandfic, gingerbeard cookie sex, the fandom joke about the pink unicorn, the Slut of Atlantis, more AUs that you can count, and HARLEQUIN NOVELS! Yes, Stargate Atlantis canon is fair, but it's fanon is crack, and the best kind.

So. Yes. I like my SGA fandom better than DW. Don't get me wrong, ya'll are nice people. You're just a bit psychotic at times. In SGA, you can do anything and everyone is still mellow. Where DW has flamewars, SGA has a slightly pointed fic critque. It's a bit jarring, juggling the two.

[misscam.livejournal.com]

You know, if you say that about SGA, you might just have asked for cosmic karma to deliver something that would squick even that fandom.

And you know, at times I think one can be a bit too mellow as well. Balance is nice, all in all.

[honorh.livejournal.com]

I like how the SPN authors were all, "You don't like our child-sexual-abuse fic? But--but we only did it for the good of fandom!" Yeah. Cute. Also, pretentious as hell; they did it to brag about being "rebels," and now they're acting wounded because not everyone followed them.

As for BtVS/AtS, well, um, quite frankly, Joss crossed just about every line there was twice, so there wasn't too much left for fen to do. Fandom as a whole tends to go *shrug* whenever attention whores write incest, violent rape, and/or child abuse. It ends up on GAFF, sometimes the author(s) drop by to whine, and it rarely even ends up at F_W anymore. SPN will get there.

[honorh.livejournal.com]

Disclaimer: I'm not saying everyone who writes incest, violent rape, and/or child abuse is an attention whore. Just that the attention whores who write said subject while whoring for attention tend to be exceptionally irritating.

[nymeria.livejournal.com]

What really gets me is how completely up in arms the people of fandom_wank were. I mean, seriously. It wasn't that bad. I've read shota more explicit and liked it, but the way the f_wank crew were foaming at the mouth I thought it was going to be another Charred Earth/Lost Elves.

And before anyone tells me to 'get help,' I can distinguish between fantasy and reality, kthx.

[nymeria.livejournal.com]

Oh, and for the meme: I don't know, really. I personally 'ship an incest 'ship and love it; the FMA fandom bitches about it but really has no choice but to put up with it, given the fact that there's about eight hundred people in the main pairing comm alone. I've written and read shota (child/child) for my pairing before, and I've had friends write necrophilia and bestiality just because they can. They weren't flamed for it. Someone in Japan released a comic of the series featuring a 5 year old girl, her huge dog and a suit of armour going at it; people said 'ewww' and wandered off.

Snubbery

[lesbiassparrow.livejournal.com]

You see if only you'd had 9 billion people emigrate to the US like us Irish they wouldn't dare to snub you even if you are wee and insignificant. Also a big parade helps.

BBC America is supposed to be buying Life on Mars which I await eagerly but until then I must go ignorant of its wonders.

Regarding fandom lines, every time I think 'oh no one would go there' I am informed that not only has some one gone there, but that there is a forum dedicated to this topic with hundreds of eager posters.

Re: Snubbery

[misscam.livejournal.com]

But we have oil - surely that is worth a parade? *mopes*

Heh, I know what you mean.

[vandonovan.livejournal.com]

I really am fond of Life On Mars. I definitely think it's worth looking into. I doubt you'll be dissappointed. :)

As for Doctor Who squicks, what, making the Doctor sexual wasn't enough? LOL I'm trying to think . . . I think rape would be pretty bad. I mean, I guess I could see something like the Master raping the Doctor, but the Doctor raping Rose, for instance? That would be unsettling/OOC.

[misscam.livejournal.com]

There was the Jack rapes the Doctor one... Haven't actually seen a fic with the Doctor as a rapist, and really, it does feel OOC right off the bat, yeah.

[b2wm.livejournal.com]

Eh, most of the RPF I've read was originalfic masquerading as fandom-related fic, so while it doesn't really bother me, it rarely pulls my interest, either. Half the time you could change the names and still be left with the same overall impression.

Treebeard/Gollum and Buckbeak/Peeves really do desensitize you. I used to be a little cautious about slash when I first started into fandom, but I've read enough fic, good and bad, that it takes a lot to surprise me. I still get squicked by mpreg, bestiality, and mother/daughter femslash, but they don't really surprise me anymore. I've learned to accept a great deal more in the course of a good story, though many of my worst hang-ups still tend to be a sign of a poorly-written story.

LotR, for all its Catboy!Eretors and Celebrian-level badfics, still seems to have certain lines that newbies and fandom dinos alike refuse to cross: turning Eowyn into a wangsty Sue is still liable to earn you flames. Plenty of fangirls will accept a more powerful OC Sue, but Ho!mione-izing the White Lady is frowned upon.

Potterverse, speaking of Ho!mione, has no line. Write it and they will wank. I don't care if it's a G-rated Arthur/Molly fluff-fest; there will be wank in the Harry Potter fandom. It's as common as sonic screwdriver jokes in Whoverse.

Dr. Who I haven't read enough badfic for in order to determine the borderline. (And I'm happy that way, thanks.)

As for Discworld, it has had its share of wank over Vimes/Vetinari, a popular fanon slash pairing, but I've seen Cheery/Drumknott, Rincewind /Luggage and/or /Greebo, bodyswitching Carrot and Detritus, and haven't batted an eye. True, they were all more or less written in good taste, but I think it'll take quite a lot to truly shock this fandom.

I've read Animorphs slash/bestiality/incest/orgy all within the same fics, and while I find it squicky, there are others who wouldn't be phased by it at all. At least it made a change from the usual "OC" Sue infestation; there are preciously few actual goodfics in a small, dying fandom written in primarily by inexperienced young teens. Still, I find myself occasionally attracted to it for old time's sake.

Star Wars has canonical Sues, for gods' sakes. There's even less that can shock here, when so much of the traditional "shocking" tropes have been played out in the EU books (most of which I don't read for a reason).

[misscam.livejournal.com]

There's been Discworld wank? Oooh, I have been missing stuff. This warrants some poking about.

I do sometimes think the more fandoms you poke through, the more you see and become accustomed to the idea of, anyway. Afetr a while, it takes some to phase you.

At least that's what's happened to me, I think.

[everysecondtues.livejournal.com]

I really can't think of any lines to cross in SGA. As has been previously stated by others, there's just so much weird stuff that's perceived as normal (or overdone) that I can't think of anything as really "out there." There's a lot of stuff I won't read, but that's true of almost every fandom of which I've been a part.

In a fandom where I can draw ninjas and fairy godmothers and semi-explicit Rodney/coffee and have it received not only well, but encouraged, I can't even imagine what it would look like. I'm sure there's wank somewhere in the fandom (it is a fandom, after all), I just haven't come across it.

[misscam.livejournal.com]

Never say never, though. That's inviting being proven wrong.

[siraj.livejournal.com]

regarding the meme, I'd think... heck, probably the crossover I'M WRITING: Stargate, and the Ironclaw tabletop RPG.

If someone doesn't manifest from either universe to kick my white backside for it, I'll be surprised.

[misscam.livejournal.com]

You'll have to wear padded trousers.

[nenya_kanadka]

Bite me, Bush. I'll give you socialism germs.

You made my day. :D

The meme--which fandom? LOTR has already been covered...Star Trek probably hasn't many lines left to cross, though personally pretty much anything with non-con in it (especially when perpetrated by major characters who have never been known to act that way) will get me hitting the back button.

CJ Cherryh fandom really doesn't *have* fanfic (the author's pretty much got a "don't ask, don't tell" policy about fic, so while it happens in scattered bits here and there there's no archive and people don't wave links about) but has already had a few humorous allusions to slash. It's a fandom that really respects the characters overall (amazingly grown-up fandom, really, and hardly any wank--and yes, I know, I'm causing wank to exist by the mere fact of claiming there is none. Oops!) so I think that if anyone did publish abusive fic many people would be up at arms.

Hmmm, what else am I into these days? Is there really lots of DiscWorld fic out there? I never seem to read it. Did see that horrid 'Stu who tried to best Carrot & was appropriately slaughtered on GAFF. Also a few Vimes/Vetinari that weren't horrible but didn't do much for me either, and a few humour fics.

[misscam.livejournal.com]

What IS CJ Cherryh fandom?

Also, heh.