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Nov. 6th, 2006 12:12 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
misscamWhat is a Norwegian?
You ask me, you get to be Norwegian if you have a citizenship. Now what your heritage might be, that's another thing. But if you live here, learn our language and want to be Norwegian to the point of taking citizenship, what else would I call you? It's not like my forefathers were moulded out of glaciers. They came here and decided this would be their home, and so it was.
In other words - stuff a moose in it, language council.
So 'The Fandom Psychiatrist' does some analyzing of Harmonians.
Now I sense bias and that post doesn't quite hit home for me, but it is kinda interesting how CSI fandom has mirrored some of the reactions that went on in HP fandom post-Half Blood Prince. HP fandom had the accusations of bad writing/set-up of the Harry/Ginny stuff, CSI fandom has had talk of forced chemistry (as opposed to the natural chemistry of the ships that didn't become Canon, of course). HP had Ginny-hate, CSI had Sara-hate - in both cases, those did exist in fandom before, but got a lot more aggressive. Both had jubilant shippers to the point of annoyance for some. Both have groups of shippers claiming their ship will still be the one who ends up Canon in the end. Both have cursing of the writer(s). Both have had some tendencies of people getting into RPF with the actors when they didn't quite get the fictional OTP.
And no doubt, both fandoms have large sections of shippers that aren't in it for a competition about becoming Canon and find it all that rather frustrating.
I know very little about House fandom, but I rather do think if one ship became Canon there, you'd see some of the same sort of stuff. Just with some unique seasoning.
Humans be humans whatever the fandom, I guess is what I'm saying. It is also interesting how POV affects perception of it all - it's always the other side that is batshit, innit? Or what even qualifies for batshit and therefore if your particular fandom has some. (Or even if you have some of it.)
Which made me ponder Doctor Who fandom. Now it is in a bit different class, because it doesn't have as many potential pairings at the same time, so you don't neccessarily have the same potential for all-out shipwar. Instead there's been to a certain degree One Large Ship and Everyone Else. (This only applies to part of the fandom, mind you.) The latter seem to be everything from smaller ships (Ten/Reinette, oui), gen people (the other PWP - Plots Without Porn), slash (boys a-shagging is HAWT), people who don't like Rose (clearly envy. Clearly) and whoever else that for some reason do not feel the Doctor/Rose ship appeals to them. Some openly dislike it, some are blah, some don't mind it in doses and some just have other preferences.
Between these loosely defined groups, you have overlap - and some tension. Been noting a bit of an increase in it myself. Maybe it's because there hasn't been any new episodes - the highest level of batshit in CSI fandom was in the summer break, so maybe batshit does increase when new episodes aren't there to draw some focus. Maybe people are just fed up. Maybe it's the fact that the main ship has come to a certain end. Whatever the reason, I do wonder if there will be some major blowout in DW ship-fandom as well. (I've certainly observed the RPF trend starting up in DW fandom already.)
And of course, the other side will be the batshit/in the wrong/mean/bunch of bitches/oppressing one if the day should come.
How will Martha play into fandom, me wonders. Might start the whole thing over again with a new ship, might bring about another camp. Might lead to something unexpected.
As for CSI and HP, neither have finished and I do wonder what will occur when Canon becomes a closed book in both cases. End of shipwars, or a new age of batshit?
Disclaimer: All this is of course coloured by my own POV, which I hereby own up to. HP fandom is fairly easy, because I really, really don't care about the romantic entanglements at all. I have no ship, I don't particulary feel passionate dislike of any character and the only one I would be very sad if died is Neville. CSI fandom - bit trickier, since I did ship Grissom/Sara and Catherine/Warrick a while, though I now mostly feel attached to them only out of nostalgia. I've tried to mock stupidity in CSI fandom as fairly as I could, but bias surely exist. Doctor Who fandom - I have no idea where I stand at all. I like and write the ship, obviously, and have done stupid in its name, but I've been characterized as anti-ship (heh), I'm apparently very loyal to my Rose-hating friends (voof), I've mocked shipping stupidity (stupid is as stupid ships) and I seem to be on the other side of the Pink Icon war. Errr. Or whatever that is. I haven't the foggiest what I would do if there was some serious fallout. Get drunk in the Wankshelter bar, probably.
Can you tell I've too little to do at work and think about stuff overly much?
You ask me, you get to be Norwegian if you have a citizenship. Now what your heritage might be, that's another thing. But if you live here, learn our language and want to be Norwegian to the point of taking citizenship, what else would I call you? It's not like my forefathers were moulded out of glaciers. They came here and decided this would be their home, and so it was.
In other words - stuff a moose in it, language council.
So 'The Fandom Psychiatrist' does some analyzing of Harmonians.
Now I sense bias and that post doesn't quite hit home for me, but it is kinda interesting how CSI fandom has mirrored some of the reactions that went on in HP fandom post-Half Blood Prince. HP fandom had the accusations of bad writing/set-up of the Harry/Ginny stuff, CSI fandom has had talk of forced chemistry (as opposed to the natural chemistry of the ships that didn't become Canon, of course). HP had Ginny-hate, CSI had Sara-hate - in both cases, those did exist in fandom before, but got a lot more aggressive. Both had jubilant shippers to the point of annoyance for some. Both have groups of shippers claiming their ship will still be the one who ends up Canon in the end. Both have cursing of the writer(s). Both have had some tendencies of people getting into RPF with the actors when they didn't quite get the fictional OTP.
And no doubt, both fandoms have large sections of shippers that aren't in it for a competition about becoming Canon and find it all that rather frustrating.
I know very little about House fandom, but I rather do think if one ship became Canon there, you'd see some of the same sort of stuff. Just with some unique seasoning.
Humans be humans whatever the fandom, I guess is what I'm saying. It is also interesting how POV affects perception of it all - it's always the other side that is batshit, innit? Or what even qualifies for batshit and therefore if your particular fandom has some. (Or even if you have some of it.)
Which made me ponder Doctor Who fandom. Now it is in a bit different class, because it doesn't have as many potential pairings at the same time, so you don't neccessarily have the same potential for all-out shipwar. Instead there's been to a certain degree One Large Ship and Everyone Else. (This only applies to part of the fandom, mind you.) The latter seem to be everything from smaller ships (Ten/Reinette, oui), gen people (the other PWP - Plots Without Porn), slash (boys a-shagging is HAWT), people who don't like Rose (clearly envy. Clearly) and whoever else that for some reason do not feel the Doctor/Rose ship appeals to them. Some openly dislike it, some are blah, some don't mind it in doses and some just have other preferences.
Between these loosely defined groups, you have overlap - and some tension. Been noting a bit of an increase in it myself. Maybe it's because there hasn't been any new episodes - the highest level of batshit in CSI fandom was in the summer break, so maybe batshit does increase when new episodes aren't there to draw some focus. Maybe people are just fed up. Maybe it's the fact that the main ship has come to a certain end. Whatever the reason, I do wonder if there will be some major blowout in DW ship-fandom as well. (I've certainly observed the RPF trend starting up in DW fandom already.)
And of course, the other side will be the batshit/in the wrong/mean/bunch of bitches/oppressing one if the day should come.
How will Martha play into fandom, me wonders. Might start the whole thing over again with a new ship, might bring about another camp. Might lead to something unexpected.
As for CSI and HP, neither have finished and I do wonder what will occur when Canon becomes a closed book in both cases. End of shipwars, or a new age of batshit?
Disclaimer: All this is of course coloured by my own POV, which I hereby own up to. HP fandom is fairly easy, because I really, really don't care about the romantic entanglements at all. I have no ship, I don't particulary feel passionate dislike of any character and the only one I would be very sad if died is Neville. CSI fandom - bit trickier, since I did ship Grissom/Sara and Catherine/Warrick a while, though I now mostly feel attached to them only out of nostalgia. I've tried to mock stupidity in CSI fandom as fairly as I could, but bias surely exist. Doctor Who fandom - I have no idea where I stand at all. I like and write the ship, obviously, and have done stupid in its name, but I've been characterized as anti-ship (heh), I'm apparently very loyal to my Rose-hating friends (voof), I've mocked shipping stupidity (stupid is as stupid ships) and I seem to be on the other side of the Pink Icon war. Errr. Or whatever that is. I haven't the foggiest what I would do if there was some serious fallout. Get drunk in the Wankshelter bar, probably.
Can you tell I've too little to do at work and think about stuff overly much?
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no subject
Date: 2006-11-06 11:26 am (UTC)Dear Nations of the Universe,
Please realize that history does not end at the present, so your nation's "history" is actually still forming--therefore giving no reason for "other people" not to be a part of it. Thanks.
A Cranky American
(Btw, speaking of Norway, did you see the "draft" of the banner I made up? If so, was that an idea you liked, or would you prefer I scrap it and go a different route?)
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Date: 2006-11-06 11:49 am (UTC)You're a darling either way.
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Date: 2006-11-06 12:00 pm (UTC)*points to icon* Heh, I was just about to rewatch those episodes after I was done reading LJ...
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Date: 2006-11-06 12:49 pm (UTC)Heh, I like those two episodes. They just... Work.
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Date: 2006-11-06 12:51 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-11-06 01:00 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-11-06 12:07 pm (UTC)I can only drawn examples to Firefly fandom, but, if you know, that fandom is "over." I was pretty active in it for about a year, after the movie came out. By far, the largest 'ship was an utterly uncanonical pairing (Jayne/River), that makes the Harry/Hermione fans seem sane (at least Harry and Hermione are friends). The "Rayne" fans (as they call themselves) are so batshitty, that they don't require canon to survive. Much of Firefly fandom is dead, but the Rayne fans are off writing crazy AUs and babyfic, etc., and don't need canon material (have never needed it, considering there is no basis for their pairing in canon) to survive. So, uh, they keep producing, whereas everyone else settles down and moves on?
I dunno. HP is big enough that I think people will still be reading it 50 years from now. And potentially ficcing still, too. But as Harry/Ginny will probably end up canon, people won't feel as much of a need to create a universe to "hook them up" you know? Whereas the Harry/Hermione fans will. So they'll probably outlive other ficcers.
I am so rambling now. Sorry.
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Date: 2006-11-06 12:44 pm (UTC)Fanfic will no doubt live on either way. It has a certain tendency to.
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Date: 2006-11-06 12:09 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-11-06 12:46 pm (UTC)I get easily distracted.
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Date: 2006-11-06 12:14 pm (UTC)That was probably rather hypocritical.
I like Rose/Nine but not Rose/Ten for some reason. I really don't know why. And Neville has to be the best and most underrated character in Harry Potter.
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Date: 2006-11-06 12:48 pm (UTC)I like both Nine/Rose and Ten/Rose, just in different ways. But yes, Neville should get more love.
I like him, too...
Date: 2006-11-06 04:26 pm (UTC)I dunno about HP fandom, I don't go there or 'ship' in any formal way...I simply enjoy the books as written and am happy...
ABS;)
Re: I like him, too...
Date: 2006-11-06 04:57 pm (UTC)Re: I like him, too...
Date: 2006-11-07 08:46 am (UTC)I'm not really invested enough in the books to be in the fandom, but I lurk at the corners just for the batshit. Predictable me.
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Date: 2006-11-06 12:53 pm (UTC)Then I had a sudden urge to re-read parts of HBP since most shippers seem to have problems with how the Harry/Ginny relationship is developed in that book...AND I RELAISED I HAVEN'T THE FOGGIEST IDEA WHERE MY COPY IS!
DOOM!
I looked for if everywhere and it's not in the house.
I must have lent it to somebody...but I can't remember who. Or when. Why am I so stupid? *sigh*
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Date: 2006-11-06 12:58 pm (UTC)I only ever read HBP once. Hmmm.
HP fandom is like a vast world of weirdness and batshit it's easy to get lost in. *nods*
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Date: 2006-11-06 12:59 pm (UTC)That or HP has jaded me.
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Date: 2006-11-06 01:02 pm (UTC)I hope Martha is awesome.
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Date: 2006-11-06 01:08 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-11-06 01:18 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-11-06 01:04 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-11-06 01:13 pm (UTC)T&C probably will have a slow dripping off, yes. Will be interesting to see where people drip off to.
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Date: 2006-11-06 06:29 pm (UTC)I reckon that too. I'm pretty likely to write at least a bit of Doctor/Martha on the same grounds as I write Doctor/Rose, i.e. that it's not something I actively ship but she's there at the time and really my interest is in the Doctor so whoever he's with right now will always get a bit of play in my fic.
A lot could depend on how the canon goes, but pretty much I think we're likely to get shippers because Ten'n'Martha are pretty much bound to have the same Bestest Friends Ever thing and probably the odd bit of handporn. So the "evidence" will be there, and it'll have the draw of not having an ending yet which means that bit's free for any ending we want to write for her.
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Date: 2006-11-07 08:50 am (UTC)I do tend to actually ship some pairings and some not, but on the other hand, I tend to be flexible. And also I write more to write than to ship, you know? It makes a certain difference.
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Date: 2006-11-07 09:37 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-11-06 06:32 pm (UTC)Word. On both sides, I reckon. A bit of me will forever be scarred by proclamations that the Doctor loves companions like humans love hamsters, other than Rose who is his true equal (implication being that they must all have been defective in some way to not be).
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Date: 2006-11-06 03:40 pm (UTC)This Nine/Rose versus Ten/Rose thing leaves me a little... well, not baffled, because it's perfectly natural to be attracted to one and not to/less to the other. But perhaps slightly confused as to where I stand and where others think I stand.
Watching the episodes, I think it's maybe easier to see the romance with Ten/Rose - they're much more openly affectionate with each other, he doesn't hide his longing looks the way Nine used to and it's clear that the only thing stopping him from telling her that he loves her is that he doesn't do that. Nine loves her, but it's a different sort of love, I think, something between wanting-to-shag-her love and needing-to-protect-her love and needing-her-to-make-him-feel-better love. Something that could have become co-dependent if he'd lived.
Yet I write Nine/Rose far more than Ten/Rose. I know that's in large part because I just find Ten bloody difficult to write, but that's not all; it's also partly that I was unsatisfied with elements of S2 - their over-the-top silliness at times, for example. A little bit of Rose not seeming to learn lessons. Unresolved plot issues from S1, which somehow seem to have been resolved 9in part) without any of us seeing the resolution. And, of course, Ten/Rose inexorably leads to Doomsday ;)
But I also ship Jack in various ways and combinations, which I suppose makes me a multishipper.
Will I ship Martha? Impossible to say without seeing her. Right now I don't want to; I'm still attached to Rose. But come next year I could easily change my mind. Time will tell.
As for the T&C shippers, once we have a new season and a new companion it's entirely possible it will have a marked slowdown, as either people shift to Martha or give up altogether as half of their ship seems to have forgotten about the other half. Time will tell.
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Date: 2006-11-06 06:25 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-11-07 08:55 am (UTC)And while I do like CSI as a show, I do like writing fanfic for it more than watching it. And I think I like writing Ten/Rose more than Nine/Rose now - possibly because the latter often involves Jack and he really does nothing for me.
In some cases, I do think liking something too much can make it harder to write, be it ships or characters. It is easy to glorify.
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Date: 2006-11-06 06:16 pm (UTC)I think it be. Otherwise wank seems to have paused for the most part and become Torchwood wank instead. Though how new eps will affect it all I have no idea since Rose has of course gone and it could turn into some weird battle over how much she gets mentioned in her absence/is moped over/makes Ten hate Martha.
How will Martha play into fandom, me wonders. Might start the whole thing over again with a new ship, might bring about another camp. Might lead to something unexpected.
I don't know, but I do think we're all doooooooomed the instant someone writes the inevitable "he had never ever loved anyone before Martha" fic.
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Date: 2006-11-07 08:58 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-11-06 10:18 pm (UTC)Blah. I agree with you. If the guy bothered to learn the language and wanted to be Norwegian enough to gain citizenship, he's a Norwegian.
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Date: 2006-11-07 09:05 am (UTC)My generation is probably a bit more flexible than some of the older guard, which is why you get some conflicts. But to me, if you have citizenship, you're Norwegian. (And on the other side, I don't call Americans descended from Norwegians actually Norwegian. They're American with Norwegian heritage. Or partly Norwegian. But now, they're first and foremost American to me.)