Why do you ship - and what sort of fandom troubles can that lead to?

[misscam]

Here's a question for you shippers of various fandom - what's your main attraction to a particular ship? (Non-shippers, your opinions are sought at the end as well.)

Do you think it is...
a) The ship itself, the whole of the two people, with perhaps not so much intrest in them individually? (i.e You adore Rose and the Doctor together, but on their own, you're not as keen.)
b) Really, really liking one person in the ship and feeling the other is the best match, but not really taking so much interest in the other? (i.e You really like Grissom and feel Sara is what he wants and therefore ship it, but you're not that interested in Sara herself.)
c) The people involved are hot and you enjoy the fanfic, but have no interest in it beyond that? (i.e You find House and Wilson together the hottest thing since toasted bread, but you have no particular investement in seeing it on-screen)
d) The idea that it will one day become Canon? (i.e You're sure Jim and Pam will hook it up and you're shipping them in anticipation of it.)
d2) While it will may or may not truly become Canon, it is the ship with the most Canon support/hints. (i.e The Doctor will probably never have an actual admitted girlfriend as companion, but some Doctor/companion dynamics may flirt more with the idea than others.)
e) It's a side-ship - keeps potential rivals of your main OTP out of the way. (i.e You ship Sara and Nick, because that keeps Sara from Grissom and opens the way for your OTP of Grissom/Catherine.)
f) The romance is your main attraction? (i.e Rose leaves, but you just switch to Martha/Doctor instead, because you're really not that fuzzy on the particulars of the ship as long as there is one.)
g) It's there, and while it's not your main interest, you feel bad ignoring it? (i.e Mulder and Scully clearly have something, and while you're mostly into the aliens, you do feel the ship should have some presence.)
h) Other?

Of course, it can be more than one reason (a combination of b and d, for instance) so feel free to include several reasons. And you might have different reasons for different ships. For instance, my reason for shipping Grissom/Sara is probably a and vaguely f. Doctor/Rose is more d2 and b, and time will tell if it's f as well.

This brings me to the next bit - do you think the varying reasons for shipping can lead to conflicts? Because I do.

For example - Grissom/Sara ship. Not everyone ships it for the same reason. A lot of people who ship it are Sara-fans who want Sara to have Grissom, but their main interest is Sara herself. Others are Grissom fans. During the debacle of the return of Lady Heather, a former flame of Grissom as it were, the two sides did clash a bit. Grissom-fans felt Grissom and William Peterson who played him got bashed. Sara-fans felt Grissom was betraying Sara and were pissed off.

Another example - Doctor/Rose. Some who ship it are very fond of Rose. Some are more there for reason g. The two sides have gotten into various scrapes over characterisation of Rose and her importance in the grand scheme of things. And when Martha comes along, clashes may occur between main a-shippers and Rosefans on one side, more f-shippers and Doctorfans on the other.

Am I totally off here? Because I've been into a few ships now and treating shippers as just one group of people of the same motives don't always work too well. Clashes within a ship group can to a certain degree be explained by personal grudges - and don't we (almost) all have those - but not always. So I'm wondering. What do you think? And if you're not into shipping at all, what's your perspective? Are shippers all one crowd of same people to you, or do you detect differences?

(For bonus points - is batshit in shipping all a matter of your own perspective and doesn't exist objectively? Do some reasons for shipping seem to spawn it more than others? Is it simply something that always crops up in groups because humans are humans akin?)

Opine, please.

Comments

[canadianevil.livejournal.com]

Sneaky ninja comment. My reasons for shipping are almost entirely c.

A few of them are for reason h- it's canon and it works for me.

[misscam.livejournal.com]

Hello ninja!

Heh, your h sounds a variation on g, really. I am that way with some pairings I might not actively ship, but I don't counter-ship them either, as it were.

[ericasj.livejournal.com]

It's a bit of both a and b for my current OTP. I do like Grissom, but I'm far more interested in Catherine.

LMAO. Mulder/Scully is certainly the best example for g.

[misscam.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I've detected that :P I like Catherine too, but I prefer Warrick with her, which probably is to do with a variation of c.

Mulder and Scully were the only ones that came instantly to mind there, heh.

[padawanpooh.livejournal.com]

I'm a veteran of quite a few ships, going right back to Tegan/Five, Vincent/Catherine, Q/Picard and Jareth/Sarah. I think my main reasons are (c) and (d2) - (c) because much of the fanfic is shippier than the on-screen canon (perhaps with the exception of Q/Picard - how much slashier can you get than Q-Who?, and (d2) because I,like many people, like to indulge in warm fuzzies from time to time.

I think different reasons for shipping can certainly spark off batshit attacks - Rose/Nine -v- Rose/Ten was never thankfully too bad, but Ten/Rose -v- Ten/Martha was getting nasty for a while there. I still think much of that one was because Old Skoolers knew that the Doctor had intense but platonic friendships with women, and maybe people coming in with the new series, and especially since we had so much canon-fodder on screen, were convinced it *had* to be One True Love.


The only parallel of Rose -v- Martha that springs to mind is Catherine -v- Diana Bennett - B&B fans seemed to sort that one out, but it seemd to take time. My guess is D/R and D/M will too. For the record I desperately hope Doctor/Martha stays as a 'traditional' Doctor/Companion relationship as I think I may go into diabetic shock if we have too much sweetness on screen...D/R was very special but should probably stay as a one-off.

/rant.

[nostalgia-lj.livejournal.com]

For the record I desperately hope Doctor/Martha stays as a 'traditional' Doctor/Companion relationship as I think I may go into diabetic shock if we have too much sweetness on screen...D/R was very special but should probably stay as a one-off.

I think we could get flamewars breaking along those lines, if we get a hardcore of Ten/Martha (or "Dartha") shippers who come to resent Ten/Rose acting as a block to their ship simply by having existed and caused an avoidance of repetition. Especially flammable if this theoretical Ten/Martha hardcore start running into the possible/likely posts about how Rose must be left special.

[peki.livejournal.com]

Hmm, this is interesting. With most ships, I'd say it's b or f, for me, but there are exceptions, and that's where OTP shipping comes in.

Weirdly, with my main ship (Lucius/Narcissa, in Harry Potter) I think it's both a and b - I like each of the characters individually and I do read gen fic about them, but if they're written in any kind of romantic/sexual situation, I only ship them as a couple (i.e. with no one else). I guess that's what an OTP is.

Thus, I get very frustrated when people write them for reasons c, e and g, for example - c can often lead to characterisation being sacrificed for the sake of kinky, over-the-top porn fic (and nothing against porn, but I'd rather have in-character porn *g*). It's similar with e and g, when the characters are written simply to serve some other ship's purpose.

It's stupid to get annoyed by something like that, because I know that different people react to different aspects in a pairing that appeal to them, and it's hard to say which approach is most valid. But still, because I feel so strongly about this ship, I'm more inclined to get irked by people not sharing my opinion. Not that I'd get wanky about it, personally, or bitch at people for not writing them the way I want (omg!), but yeah, different reasons for shipping can lead to conflict, if all parties involved get worked up enough.

'Batshit' isn't entirely subjective though, I think (or perhaps I'm just arrogant) - sometimes, shippers' ways of expressing their love for a pairing are just insane. *g*

[misscam.livejournal.com]

OTP seems to mean to many different things to different people I sometimes have trouble figuring out what it means ;) But generally, implies some sort of exclusitivity, yes.

It's stupid to get annoyed by something like that, because I know that different people react to different aspects in a pairing that appeal to them, and it's hard to say which approach is most valid. But still, because I feel so strongly about this ship, I'm more inclined to get irked by people not sharing my opinion. Not that I'd get wanky about it, personally, or bitch at people for not writing them the way I want (omg!), but yeah, different reasons for shipping can lead to conflict, if all parties involved get worked up enough.

Yes. That's pretty much what I've been observing, I think. People who share a preference for a ship, but still get into these fights or wanks or whatever because the motivations are different. Hence, you can get conflict at times.

[aervir.livejournal.com]

For the ships I really love, it's mainly a reason falling into category h) (other): I like both characters on their own and their interactions. They have to interest me independently from their relationship, but the relationship also adds the attraction of romance or loyal friendship (I'm a sort of platonic shipper/friendshipper for some of my pairings).

Examples:

-- Éowyn/Faramir in bookverse!LOTR. They both belong to my favourite characters in the entire novel on their own; however, the more I think about their decision to marry, the more I can see reasons not necessarily given in the text, but extracted from the source material why they are really an excellent match .

-- Mulder/Scully in the earlier seasons of The X-Files before the show started to suck. Mulder as the angsty paranoid outcast genius and Scully as the cool, rational, capable scientist are both very strong, almost archetypal characters in their own right. But the canon dynamic we got to see was also very fascinating, loyalty and devotion and balancing each other vs. a sort of fucked-up co-dependence.

I could cite many more examples of this, but I don't want to bore you. Apart from that, I'm also very keen on canon or strong canonical hints, i.e. even though I don't like a canon pairing, I would never ignore it. It has to be considered to some extent in meta posts about characterization or in fanfiction. This would be your option g, I guess.

Oh, and there's option i) for me, too. I'm not invested in that particular canon or fanon pairing, but I won't say no to well-written meta or especially fanfic about it.

[aervir.livejournal.com]

Hmm, my option i) is very much like your option c), just minus the hotness. My shipping tends to be weirdly asexual sometimes.

[nostalgia-lj.livejournal.com]

(I shall stick to our common fandom here.)

b) Really, really liking one person in the ship and feeling the other is the best match, but not really taking so much interest in the other?

Mostly how I ship in most fandoms, I reckon. I get an OTC and then the one I ship them with. Doctor/Everyone, yay!


d) The idea that it will one day become Canon?

Do people really ship like that? That's honestly one I've never understood. Do you have to, like, make yourself like things for that?


d2) While it will may or may not truly become Canon, it is the ship with the most Canon support/hints.

My canon is flexible. Has had to be. I don't listen to anyone who tells me the Doctor isn't half-human, omfg!


And when Martha comes along, clashes may occur between main a-shippers and Rosefans on one side, more f-shippers and Doctorfans on the other.

Totally. Some are gonna jump over to the new ship because Martha's there at the time for post-ep porn and whatnot. Which may indeed cause conflict if it becomes a dividing line among people who've otherwise always been more or less in agreement over shipping matters.


Clashes within a ship group can to a certain degree be explained by personal grudges

I tend to end up in conflicts with people who see the ship as the whole point, above anything else. The romantics and me don't really get on well. I've had flamewars over whether half of an OTP is allowed to have had sex by the age of 35.


is batshit in shipping all a matter of your own perspective and doesn't exist objectively? Do some reasons for shipping seem to spawn it more than others?

We'd need to define "batshit" first. DW's batshit is... *thinks* "an ongoing and hardline insistence on exclusivity even in fannish contexts, which is incendiary only in a fandom with a large number of possible and non-conflicting OTPs." In other words very very romantic stuff that'd be just a bit eyeroll-causing anywhere else. "Thou shalt not suffer another possible ship to live" sort of thing? Or am I way off?

[misscam.livejournal.com]

Do people really ship like that? That's honestly one I've never understood. Do you have to, like, make yourself like things for that?

People ship like that. I think some do it for that moment where they go "haha, I knew they'd get together! All those fanfics I wrote about them getting together - those got it right!" People like the feeling of backing a winning horse.

Totally. Some are gonna jump over to the new ship because Martha's there at the time for post-ep porn and whatnot. Which may indeed cause conflict if it becomes a dividing line among people who've otherwise always been more or less in agreement over shipping matters.

Yeah. That's what I am thinking. Though it depends how strongly people feel about their reasons for shipping as well. It may very well be just light clashes of more hardcore lot, while the majority isn't too worked up about it.

I tend to end up in conflicts with people who see the ship as the whole point, above anything else. The romantics and me don't really get on well. I've had flamewars over whether half of an OTP is allowed to have had sex by the age of 35.

I think 'romantics' can be a wide term - I consider myself so not because I see the romance as the whole point per say, but because I am often more interested in exploring the dynamics in a romance than perhaps in a friendship. That make sense? (Though that varies - sometimes, I'm more into the friendships. Sometimes not.)

We'd need to define "batshit" first. DW's batshit is... *thinks* "an ongoing and hardline insistence on exclusivity even in fannish contexts, which is incendiary only in a fandom with a large number of possible and non-conflicting OTPs." In other words very very romantic stuff that'd be just a bit eyeroll-causing anywhere else. "Thou shalt not suffer another possible ship to live" sort of thing? Or am I way off?

I dunno. Defining batshit to be is a bit like defining life - I just know it when I see it. I guess it's living in a bubble a bit. What others see as logic and sanity becomes to you persecution and what-not. Becoming too insistent on always being right seem to be an easy way to go to batshit - other opinions can just never have even a point, and therefore you have to refute them with increasing ridiculus arguments.

Defining batshit seems a project of its own, really.

[crackpig.livejournal.com]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/coast/shipping/

[misscam.livejournal.com]

Smartarse troll.

[cedara]

Hmm... a mix between (c), (d), (d2) and (h), I think.

I need to have visual confirmation of there being something between the characters that would make it probable to slash/ship them, eg. friendship, UST, antagonism (not of the hate kind, but of the sparring kind). There must be some level of trust to make it plausible.

For me, that means, of course, I can see House/Cameron, House/Cuddy or House/Wilson as possible pairings.

In regard to Doctor Who, it all depends on whether you're in the sexual or asexual category - he's certainly loved all companions he ever had, some more some less. As for Rose/Doctor, for me the overtones in the show were bigger with #9 than with #10, even though #10 is better eyecandy.

[misscam.livejournal.com]

For me, that means, of course, I can see House/Cameron, House/Cuddy or House/Wilson as possible pairings.

I've only watched like five episodes of House yet, and I agree. I seem to get some hints of Chase/Cameron as well, though that might've been dropped later on. I know not.

The Doctor certainly loved/loves a lot of people. But yeah, as you said, if it gets interpreted sexually or not seems a lot to do with personal preference.

[drakyndra.livejournal.com]

My thoughts on shipping:

I tend to, for the most part, like canon ships. Dunno why, just do. My shipping tendency thus tend to be a bit of b) - because I do have distinct character preferences (Thus my Ten/anyone tendancies). And then we get a bit of my h) - A ship that is both already canon, but you like both characters in it both individually, and as a couple (Han/Leia, Wash/Zoe).

There's a few case of c) I have. Some of which coincide with my reasons for Ten/whoever. ;)

That said, though I go for canon ships mostly, the canonships I prefer tend to be more due to the type of character dynamic between the two, which is something you haven't touched on as much.

Also: For me, batshit shipping is anyone who takes a perspective to an extreme level, despite what that position is. I do think some reasons get a bit more of it, because they have a more wild starting point (anyone who tries Real Person shipping predictively automatically goes in my batshit basket) And as for groups... well, groups have a distinct power in influencing individual opinions. I had an exam on this very topic less than a week ago, I could give you social psych evidence for this if you wanted...

[misscam.livejournal.com]

I've had a tendency to go for Canon-esque ships myself, so know what you mean. It's not so much that I need them to be Canon, but that I feel uncomfortable directly contradicting Canon with them, if that makes sense.

I had an exam on this very topic less than a week ago, I could give you social psych evidence for this if you wanted...

Heh, no need. I took some sociology and psychology at University both, so I am not unfamiliar with it, put it that way. As I like to say, humans are very strong herd animals. We do have a mind of our own too, oh yes, but humans do often feel more comfortable having their opinion reassured. It's no coincidence fandom often get various cliques consisting of those of like mind, me thinks.

[falena]

Oh dear, you and your thought-provoking posts that force me to organise my opinions in a semi-coherent manner...

For me to ship a particular pairing, I need to find both character interesting individually first. So I guess that rules out option a) and b) for me.

Options d) looks all sorts of scary to me (as most people who practise this sort of shipping seems a bit delusional to me - unless the couple has already become Canon in their fandom). Anyway, I usually don't care much about my ship becoming canon. I mean, I wouldn't mind it if a ship of mine became Canon, but it's not a prerequisite for shipping, in my mind. For example, two of the ships I find most intriguing are Mal/River (Serenity) and Snape/Hermione (HP). Yet the fact they will never become Canon doesn't disturb me at all.

This doesn't mean I don't give a toss about Canon per se. Quite the contrary. In fact, I must say that option d2) plays a role in my shipping ways. I might not need my ship to be the most-strongly based in Canon, but it does have to have some sort of Canon-support.

I don't do the side-ship thing. I don't belive in OTPs much anyway. In fact I don't think I have a OTP.

f) is so not my thing. Romance and I are unmixy things, most of the time. (Which is probably the reason why I'm so 'easygoing' in my shipping).

So, this was a very convoluted way of saying that for me it's mostly option c), since I do not expect my ship to make it to the screen. And your post just made me realise that I'm a hge g-shipper when it comes to Grissom/Sara. I never knew before!*lol*
To sum things up, I think I could theoretically ship evryone/everyone (*lol* sounds like an orgy) provided there is some Canon support for the pairing and I like both characters enough. Most of the time, though, I can't simply be bothered to ship. If fandom was a meal, shipping would be just a side dish, one of those you eat only when you're really really hungry or when they're very yummy. (I lose at metaphors).

As for the second part of your question...I agree with you. Different 'styles' of shipping lead to conflicts. And that's why there are clashes even between people who ship the same pairing.

Batshit...uhm, the very fact that there is not a universally shared definition of batshit (as far as I know) is significant already. I tend to consider batshit shippers similar to religious fundamentalist so maybe you made a good point with the 'humans are humans'argument. I dunno, though.

[misscam.livejournal.com]

Always good to do some thinking now and then ;) I actually had to start think real hard on why I ship some of the ships I do and sometimes I'm not even sure. Probably a mix between unconscious preferences I can't quite pin down and just having several factors at play. And though one reason might be the intial attraction to a ship, you might ship it for other reasons down the line.

I think I ship more in fanfic than I do in fandom itself as well. I guess I just like writing about it.

Different 'styles' of shipping lead to conflicts. And that's why there are clashes even between people who ship the same pairing.

*nods* I think you see it more in larger ship groups, because in smaller ones people might feel more a need not to split too much.

Heh, religious fundamentalists are often batshit. Hello, Fred Phelps. It probably is that taking the extreme as drak mentioned above.

[boz4pm.livejournal.com]

Well, speaking as a non-shipper, given LOTR is full of canon ships, or else you invent your own characters or else start slashing ships (which, given I tend to write 'strictly canon' fanfic has no place in my fic, though I'm happy to read it and have no problem with people writing it; also it usually tends to mainly involve the older, Noldo elves, the Silmarillion in particular), I would have to say your analysis makes a lot of sense.

Just as people write fanfic for different reasons, or get hooked by different fandoms for different reasons, so to with writing a particular pairing. Some do it for the smex, some do it because the dynamic of the pairing as they say works well, some do it just to see how that pairing would work - if they can make it work. As for the rabid 'only this ship can be and I'll thwap anyone who says otherwise', that's a whole other ballgame and one I've never really understood, especially when you are talking about non-canon or 'currently non-canon' pairings. Can't really comment on that aspect, I guess, therefore.

Er... I think I'm just rambling now.

[misscam.livejournal.com]

Yeah - people often like the same thing, but often for very different reasons. This isn't always appearant and not always a problem either, me thinks, it's just in some cases it can actually become a very large issue. That you see it as a non-shipper too is interesting - I was worried I might be overthinking at times.

The very rabid OTP - well, I guess it's like a very rabid football fan. It's your team. You hate to see it lose. You want to see it win. Sometimes, you get a little... too dedicated over it. I know I do.

Me and my sports metaphores...

I think I'm just rambling now.

Makes two.

[falena]

You're listeing to Grey's soundtrack...this means the CD is working. Yay!I realised after dropping the package at the post office that I hadn't checked the CD after burning it. Oops.

[misscam.livejournal.com]

Heh. It works perfectly, no worries. Only thing is you started to write the songs up on the cover and only got to six and then seems to have forgotten ;)

[klose.livejournal.com]

I guess for me, it varies depending on the ship.
For example, a ship like Eowyn/Faramir: The moment Faramir and Eowyn met, I liked the idea of both of them together. I liked them both as individual characters, and I thought that they suited each other. I suspect I already knew that E/F became a canon ship at the end of the book, so that might have influenced my feelings.

However, with Remus/Tonks - the idea did not occur to me till the immediate aftermath of OotP. I realised that they would actually be a great couple (in my eyes), but what with all the Sirius/Remus "their love is so canon" I NEVER thought it would become canon. Hoped to heck (because it would bring some exposure to the 'ship, and more fanfic for me to read :P), because I think in the end a lot of shippers want some sort of gratification for their choices. Which might explain why it's easy for some to get defensive...

[misscam.livejournal.com]

I suspect I already knew that E/F became a canon ship at the end of the book, so that might have influenced my feelings.

This is quite possible. If you already know the result, you are likely to adapt to it. Possibly why fandoms where the source material is still open there seems to be much more shipwars. Because people have different ideas about the end result, they have a stronger reaction to a ship happening along the way than if they knew from the start. They don't have the same time to adapt.

because I think in the end a lot of shippers want some sort of gratification for their choices. Which might explain why it's easy for some to get defensive...

Oh yeah. What is gratification varies from person to person, though. Some get it well enough in fanfic, some need it in the Canon. But some sort of gratification I think most do crave.

[cincoflex.livejournal.com]

One line of reasoning I haven't seen here yet is identification with/Mary Sueing one character (usually the female) in order to be able to write romance for the ship. I think fans tend to personally identify with one or another female character on a show ( "Oh, I'm So Sara" or "I'm a LOT like Rose") and consciously or unconsciously follow the 'ship for their own inner gratification. From what I've seen--and it may not always be true here--younger female fans tend to gravititate to the youngest female in the possible choices, and older fans go for one of the other choices. I'm basing this on the number of Sara VS Catherine fans, the Cameron VS Cuddy fans and the Scully VS Monica fans.

[misscam.livejournal.com]

That I suppose is a version of b - liking the person to the point of identifying with her/him, or identifying with him/her and therefore liking him/her. I have seen examples of you're talking about - one telling slip I saw was a Sara/Nick shipper talking about wanting the two together and Sara getting "my dreamguy". So yeah, it does happen. But I have also seen older women identify with younger characters - seen women in their 40s ship Hermione with Harry and what-not, so it's not an absolute rule, it seems.

[jenbachand.livejournal.com]

I think for me it's a combination of many of them.

Like A could sort of be for the odd ships that happen in some of the shows I watch. Like on Law & Order: SVU. Not really keen on either character, but they're ok together. More so CSI: Miami with Ryan & Calleigh. I really like both characters & they're cute, and at least someone's trying at a relationship on that show.

But B is me & Hermione. While I love to ship her with Snape (yes I live pre-HBP), I've shipped her with Remus & Harry, and just about anybody but Ron. Because she has a Super Brain & could have the whole Dark Lord thing stitched up in a bit if someone would just listen to her.

C is all about my slash shipping. The fanfiction is hot, but do I really want to see it, not really. Not anti-gay or anything, but I think it would be the death of any overly popular show in the US. Brothers & Sisters is one of the few shows with an openly gay character & it's relegated to Sunday nights. It's a good show.

G is what describes my interest in Bones & Grey's. The stories are good & the tension/sex is there, but not my focus in the shows.

GSR is some combo of most of the above. And while over the years I've shipped Sara or Grissom with someone else for various reasons, it's always been my OTP for CSI.

Shippers are all pretty different depending on age, maturity, experience, preference, and level of involvement. Most of my family watches CSI, but nobody else was giddy over GSR becoming canon. What causes batshit shipping wars, in any fandom is the anonimity the internet provides, and people's desire to always be right. They get to hide behind a screen name and tout their views. Even when canon tells them otherwise. Ship your ship, just you know, live in a happy little AU world and be done with it.

And batshit in the same ship, well I think it goes to the experience/preference thing as well. Do Grissom & Sara have hot kinky sex. We'll never know because it's not HBO, but if someone wants them to have vanilla sex or kinky leather & paddle sex, it's not really anything but speculation.

[misscam.livejournal.com]

It is kind of interesting why some people - not talking of you in particular, but you reminded me of it - is so adamant against shipping Hermione with Ron. I wonder what's at work there.

Not anti-gay or anything, but I think it would be the death of any overly popular show in the US.

Because it becomes too gimmicky or because the viewers won't tolerate it or what?

You're probably onto something about people's need to be right, or at least feel justified. Possibly some people put so much effort into shipping, they feel they "deserve" some pay-off. And because it's harder to channel resentment towards the show's writers, it gets channeled into fandom? I don't know, but is possible.

oops, i wrote a novel.

[satiate.livejournal.com]

re: batshit shipping - is it only batshit if it's expressed? or does everyone in a fandom have the potential to be a batshit shipper? could i be an insane batshit shipper, but i just never start drama, so then i'm not a batshit shipper, even though i really am? *goes crosseyed*

i really like doctor/rose - i think i'm more of an 'a' and 'c' (and i suppose 'd2') shipper on that one. most of the time, it's okay if it never shows up on screen explicitly. i don't particularly care about canon or get involved in ship wars. i just sort of trundle along by myself, read the fic that interests me, and leave the rest alone. :P

i do love the character of rose to bits, though, so i don't know. :/ i don't necessarily believe that *according to canon* they were OMG!SOULMATES!!!1, but i do think they had something special - but as evidenced with sarah jane, the doctor does "special" very well lmao, so i'm okay with doctor/other character ships. they make sense too. i don't think doctor/rose's relationship was physical, but i also don't believe their feelings were platonic, either. *shrug* the doctor's old. he gets lonely. i like fics where rose is the special and different companion and there is OMG!MUCHLOVEFOREVAR!!!1, but honestly, i don't think it's true as far as canon goes. which is okay. i'm not really bothered, and i'm definitely not going to start wank about it, lol. i can believe doctor/rose were special while still acknowledging the truth of canon. i don't feel the need to rewrite canon in order to justify my personal preferences.

Re: oops, i wrote a novel.

[misscam.livejournal.com]

Everyone's got instincts and desires they suppress, really. So I suppose everyone has an inner batshit. But we don't have thought police about, so yeah, batshit only really gets registered when it gets acted on. Which I think happens to most of us in smaller degrees. However, if we were to judge each other on what we think, we'd sure all ring up a hefty charge register.

As long as you don't think fanfic is the show, I think you'll manage fine ;)Not managing to keep Canon and fanon apart really seem to be where a lot of trouble starts.

[wintergreen126.livejournal.com]

hmm...i'm going to have to go with d2 and h, with h being i like the characters both individually and together. i enjoy each character in and of themselves, but i like them together, in that i like the dynamic they share and the relationship they have (or may have, depending on the case). does that make sense?

as for is batshit in shipping all a matter of your own perspective and doesn't exist objectively?, i think i'm leaning toward the former. i think people sometimes get too caught up in their 'ships. it's nice that they feel really strongly about their characters and what not, but at the same time, it's just tv, people, it's just tv.

interesting questions! have a great day :o)

[misscam.livejournal.com]

Makes sense, yes. The whole is more than the sum of its parts and all, so the dynamic of two characters isn't just the two characters slapped together. There is more you can get out of it.

it's just tv, people, it's just tv.

Oh, people are very good about getting passionate over relatively minor matters. See sports, obsessions over. It's just human nature.

[peridot-lines.livejournal.com]

When I think about why I started shipping, I would probably say it follows the lines of a. However, as time has gone by it's sort of changed I guess. I love GSR, and Grissom, but really at this point it's become more about Sara for me than anything. I sort of side-ship Warrick and Catherine as well, mostly for the reasons you listed in e. Outside of CSI though, I'm much more flippant about shipping, it doesn't really matter to me as much, but when little moments occur it kind of piques my interest.

[misscam.livejournal.com]

Yeah, there are shows where I don't really have any interest in shipping, but I might still find it interesting to read a good fanfic exploring it, or actually watching two people get together onscreen. Inner romantic, perhaps.

I think Catherine & Warrick is a side-ship to a lot of people in CSI, really. I've seen it so among GSR people, Sara/Nick people, even some Grissom/Catherine have it as a sort of back-up ship. Curious, that.

[starsong24.livejournal.com]

I rarely have any 'ship at all, and when I do it's generally a Canon romance that hasn't been explicitly stated but is clearly developing. Other times, it's me exploring what would happen if X lost Y or Z saved W's life. Or sometimes I just like a bunch of people and want to see what'd happen if I tried to organise a gang-bang between them.

[honorh.livejournal.com]

Well, it varies from 'ship to 'ship. In some cases, I've 'shipped a couple of times only because they're together in canon (Buffy/Spike leaps to mind), and I'm just like that. In the case of, say, Nine/Rose, it's more a d2 reason, with a dash of "two great tastes that taste great together" since I like them both. (Oddly, I'm not a romantic Ten/Rose 'shipper, though I do love both of them and their relationship. Different dynamic, and I don't feel the romance there--just the love.)

I also definitely agree that the different reasons for 'shipping often lend themselves to conflict. I also think that sometimes, the worst conflicts come out of two sets of 'shippers 'shipping for the same reason, only with different people. D1, for instance--doesn't that have "Harmony vs. Everyone Else" writ large all over it?

[misscam.livejournal.com]

It's funny how some people don't feel like shipping Nine/Rose romantically at all, and some not Ten/Rose at all. And some are totally fine with both. Different people, different perceptions, I guess.

I also think that sometimes, the worst conflicts come out of two sets of 'shippers 'shipping for the same reason, only with different people.

Oh yeah. Opposing ship wars happen frequently. But I was getting intrigued by fighting within groups prefering the same pairing, hence this post speculating about it.

[keskt.livejournal.com]

I've wonder about this as well. One thing I've noticed is that I usually gravitate towards 'ships where I am attracted to the guy, to varying degrees. The only exception is Grissom, who I was attracted to at the beginning but now find to be rather sexless- yet I still like the Grissom/Sara 'ship. I almost always also really like the female character- I guess I identify with her or want to be like her or something. Again, Sara is by far my favorite character.
AND the pairing has to be supported in canon- it might never become canon but it can't come out of left field. I don't read fic anymore really, so it would be hard to get into a pairing with little basis in canon. I suppose I am a bit boring :P And I also like reason and logic. Not to say there's anything wrong with uncanon(?) pairings in the slightest- I just don't understand usually when people get super defensive about a pairing that has no support in canon.

[misscam.livejournal.com]

cincoflex was mentioning that - using the female character a bit as a proxy and wanting her to hook up with your dream guy, thus somewhat living out a fantasy of your own. It's probably very common. Heck, connecting with a story often relies on you at some level putting yourself into the character and living the story through them.

I just don't understand usually when people get super defensive about a pairing that has no support in canon.

Possibly because they feel they're getting looked down upon or being attack for shipping something "less" than a Canon ship? Everyone gets defensive about something they like at times.

[saturnianali8r.livejournal.com]

H- My reason is that in most cases, I watch my couples together and interacting and they seem to have so much chemistry.

[misscam.livejournal.com]

'Chemistry' is a highly subjective term, though. And in cases where several potential pairings can be said to have chemistry, there's still often something that attracts people to prefer one over another.

[lingering-echo.livejournal.com]

For me it's mainly a) and a little bit of g2). A good fic that is about one of the characters and doesn't involve the pairing wouldn't interest me much, for instance. And although g2) is kind of redundant now for Grissom and Sara, I just can't ship pairings for which I can't see any cannon support. I started watching CSI through random reruns, and in one episode I caught some comment or look with a hint of UST between G/S, and it occured to me in that moment that I really like the idea of them together. And that was it. I personally have no interest in shipping Grissom or Sara with anyone else but each other. But, one point that I've come to realize: who people ship usually depends on whom they identify with. Perhaps it's safe to say that women who watch CSI usually identify with either Sara or Catherine, and I personally think that people are more comfortable "accepting" pairings that involve the character they are identifying with, usually the female part of their ship. That is, Grissom/Catherine shippers are usually open to Catherine/Warrick, whereas Grissom/Sara shippers are usually more open to Sara/Nick or Sara/Greg than Grissom with another woman (of course there are also hardcore Grissom/WP fans who just want to see Grissom with someone, anyone)...

[misscam.livejournal.com]

and I personally think that people are more comfortable "accepting" pairings that involve the character they are identifying with, usually the female part of their ship.

You could be onto to something there - I've always wondered why it's (almost) always the woman who gets bashed upon in shipwars. But that would explain it, basically. It's easier for someone relating to Catherine to see her maybe go for another guy, than to see Sara "steal" Grissom away from Catherine, as it were.

[melliyna.livejournal.com]

In my main fandom of the moment (West Wing) I'm not actually a shipper in the main - it's all about the friendship and any ships are essentially secondary and all canon based - so h. Doctor Who however I'm all about the c *is alarmingly shallow*

And as for batshit crazy shipping as far as I can tell it's all a matter of perspective. I've done a bit on power relationships in my political science class and about how people can hold illogical positions simply because the dominant social grouping enforces that so I think it can have a lot to with group dynamics and getting caught up in that.

[misscam.livejournal.com]

Nothing wrong with being shallow now and then ;)

Yeah - a lot of the Harmony wank probably came from it being a group reinforcing each other's... misconceptions, to use a nicer word. It's easier to hold on to an opinion when you feel others agree with it, after all.

[anybodybutsara.livejournal.com]

Well, to be candid, I rarely ship and when I do, it's usually the exact opposite of what the most popular ship is...CSI, for instance, I really never noticed anything shippy except solitary moments of flirting amoung all the characters at one time or another...After episode 1, Sara got really awful...All of a sudden it dawned on me that Sara had a crush on Griss...Understandable...But as her charry declined further over time, I found myself ignoring her and being happy when Griss flirted elsewhere...anywhere else...

The season 6 finale was a huge slap in the face, plotwise...I resented that TPTB wrote Sara as such a clingy/whiny/messy/boring/basketcase and as her reward, she gets the Alpha male...WTF?...

And when I tried to discuss my feelings/thoughts on this subject, it was met with extreme hostility by what I now know are GSR shippers...The nastier they were, the more determined I felt about them couple not belonging together..That sent me completely in the opposite direction and I suppose turned me into an anti-shipper...

A non-CSI fan friend said "You want Griss with anybody but Sara, huh?"...And so the course was set...LOL

ABS;)

[misscam.livejournal.com]

Well, basically, a lot of GSR fans are mainly Sara fans. Thus, you insult her character - particulary if you present your own opinions as facts - you're going to get hostility. Oh yeah. And humans being humans, hostility breeds hostility.

That probably explains a bit why CSI fandom got so nasty during the summer. Some shippers got disappointed and expressed it in perhaps not particulary guarded terms. GSR shippers feel something they like being attack and reply back. Stuff escalates. Wank occurs.