Ah, them fandom grudges...

[misscam]

So will the love at T&C get as many comments as the hate? Fandom being fandom, somehow, I think not.

And I see past grudges come out to play a bit, too. And possibly new ones forming, who knows.

Funny how negativity comes out in such strong bursts sometimes. Is it because the rest of the time we're meant to play nice, so that when the gates are opened, a deluge follow? Or are we humans just a little hateful now and then?

Is quite interesting how people who start out all "I just want everyone to like me!" can be the most venomous of all at times too. Let's face it, you're never going to like everyone and not everyone will like you. Some people just don't click.

Course, not clicking with someone needn't lead to fandom grudges in itself. Usually needs a bit more. Maybe the person has done one thing you just can never get over and judge all behaviour thereafter in light of it. Maybe the other person started with the grudging - or at least so it feels to you - and you're just following up. Maybe a dozen little things all added up. Maybe there were Icon Wars. Maybe there were Fanfic Wars. Maybe you took up the grudge in the name of a friend you felt wronged. Maybe, maybe, maybe. There's probably as many different ways to gain one as there are people in fandom. We're probably not even aware of forming them at times. I know I have a few it's hard for me to pinpoint exactly why I have. There's no one thing I can trace them back to. Other times, there definitely are.

Like a nasty falling out with a friend. Now that might cause one of the worst grudges one can have. It's like all the good feelings you've had for that person now become poison. Legendary grudge wanks often involve former friends, it seems.

And of course all good grudges need fuel, or they tend to wither and die like a limp souffle. Err. Something like that.

In the end, maybe it's helpful to let out a little hate now and then, rather than saving it up for a hate meme that then spirals totally out of control. Or maybe not letting it out lets it die quietly as it should and fandom goes back to puppies, rainbows and porn.

What do you think? Got grudges that live? Got grudges who died? Hate hatememes or think them needed? Does fandom get with the hate, or is it just a few troublemakers stirring shit? Curious about grudges I might have? I am bored, so opine on me. Grudge-holders and grudge-less alike welcome.

Comments

[csinut214.livejournal.com]

Sorry, I'm a bit out of the loop. What's a hatememe?

[misscam.livejournal.com]

A LJ created to let people post anon comments about what and who they hate in fandom.

[csinut214.livejournal.com]

Good lord... is there really such a thing? What's the point?

[misscam.livejournal.com]

There's usually been at least one per fandom. Doctor Who's had one. Not sure about CSI, but I sure it would have a very wanky one if it tried.

The point being hating, I suppose.

[csinut214.livejournal.com]

I guess I hold grudges... in that when someone hurts or offends me (or a close friend) I'll tend to avoid them. That's not to say I haven't had a few blow-ups over the years. But still, I don't actively hate anyone. If they annoy me, I just try and ignore them in the fandom.

[oh-medicate-me.livejournal.com]

Personally, I've got no grudges against anyone but I've watched grudges develop between others with utter fascination.

There was one in particular in CSI fandom which has quietened down at the moment, but it went on for months and months and...well, the whole thing reminded me of the petty battles in highschool - the popular, well known kids ostracizing the kinda-weird twitchy loner - and from that small example alone I found it quite interesting how fandom reflects RL hierarchies and social communities a lot more than we realise it does.

Also, I'm genuinely curious as to who you would have a grudge against.
Because I'm hell nosy like that.

[misscam.livejournal.com]

The CSI one rings many, many bells. Oh yes. Not the only grudge in that fandom, though. I can count at least half a dozen I know of that involves people I know more than vaguely.

And yeah, there's totally hierachies at work.

Um, now I have to think. There was one chick, whose name I have totally forgotten, who said some fairly nasty things on a hatememe and she was a friend of a friend, so I had very nasty thoughts about her whenever I saw her name. But now I have forgotten it, which means my grudge was lame and weak. Woe.

Had a falling out with a friend that left a bit of a grudge just from the way it happened. I suppose that counts, even if I never did anything about it.

I think I've gone soft of late. I used to be better at my grudges, now I just point and mock, it seems.

[harmonyfb.livejournal.com]

Got grudges that live?

Hmm. I've got other folks in fandom who I don't care for, but I don't think I'd call it a grudge. I mean, it's not like they stole my bible and fornicated with mah man, if you know what I mean.

I'm sure there are folks out there who don't care for me, neither, but I'd like to think we're all capable of acting like grown-ups and being polite even if we don't care for one another.

Now, fictional characters? Hate on, baby. ;)

[misscam.livejournal.com]

but I'd like to think we're all capable of acting like grown-ups and being polite even if we don't care for one another.

That's the nice theory. But it certainly doesn't play out that way always. People are people. Fandom is fandom. Politeness gets clogged over the head with a barstool. Shit happens. Heck, people get grudges in real life too that you can sometimes watch play out in the ever-watching media.

[mage-of-time.livejournal.com]

I'm on a school computer, so I can't view the communities and can't see what happened, but I'm guessing that there was a big Doctor, Rose, Martha, whatever bashing?

I'm not sure. While I really don't want people to go batshit insane all in one go and have a week of anarchy and hate and evil, I'm not really in favor of people holding these grudges and fandoms being divided completely down the middle, because that's no fun. I like fandoms with intelligent conversation, rampant fangirling, and people actually enjoying whatever it is they're obsessing about. I really don't like fandoms when people are shooting each other over whether Harry should snog Hermione or Ginny. So... Really, in a perfect world there wouldn't be all this wank.

And having an entire meme devoted to people you hate in the fandom? Is just depressing.

I hope this is what the links were about. Sorry for the rant if they weren't. :)

[misscam.livejournal.com]

Actually, there was a thread on what people totally didn't like in fanfics, and then what they totally did like. But some of the people who went and disagreed had past disagreements behind, put it that way.

[littlezink.livejournal.com]

Personally I think that, just like in rl, some people truly enjoy doing nothing more than to lay in wait to stir trouble. They probably feel empowered by the annonymity of the online world.

I just deal with fandom annoyances the same way I deal with rl annoyances - I mock them, then ignore them.

[cincoflex.livejournal.com]

I am not a good person, because I have had grudges. Having said that, I have tried to let them go, but every once I a while something happens--a posting, a comment--and I find myself getting angry all over again.

One grudge dates to a time when I let a person read a piece of CSI fic I wrote, and they utterly slammed it, saying that since it wasn't GSR it wasn't worth her time. The story was The Client, and I'm amused that lots of other people seemed to like it.

Another grudge began because I was cut from an LJ friendlist over a meme, and even though nothing on it was directed at that friend, they decided to cut me from their list. I was welcome to keep reading *theirs*, they told me. The grudge grew as I noted how this person, who felt that *I* had been being cutting and critical in a meme, kept using her own LJ to cut down other people, particularly newbie writers. I couldn't take the hypocrisy, and still can't.

Laugh if you will, but I've gone to church and prayed to be a better person; to give up the little ember of anger inside me at personal injustices. Most of the time I'm good. Every now and then though . . . .

Making the effort to overcome the baser elements of my nature--does that count somewhere? Do I get a point or two for at least recognizing the behavior?

[misscam.livejournal.com]

OHNOES TRAITOR TO THE SHIP?

Ah yeah, I know what you're talking about. I remember it. (I see a lot more going on in fandom than I ever comment on, that's for sure.) It's not uncommon to start noticing stuff like that after you've had a bit of a falling out with a friend either. If it's because you've had your feelings hurt and now want to see this person in a worse light, or because when you're inclined to feel good about someone, you just ignore the flaws, I don't know. Maybe it's both.

At least with me, recognizing one's own fault wins points. No one is good all the time. Everyone's got nasty impulses they act on. At least if you know them for what they are, you might be able to fight them when they concern bigger things than fandom blah, you know? I worry more about people who think all they do is good. It can lead to very, very nasty places indeed.

[giglet.livejournal.com]

Hey lady. I'm here via meta_fandom.

I firmly believe that there are actions and attitudes worth hating. And although a saint may be able to hate the sin but love the sinner, I usually can't.

But, that said, online fandom seems like a silly place to expend the emotional energy required to hate someone (ie, carry a grudge). I don't have the time or energy to be more than annoyed when people in fandom act badly.

Usually, it's easy to cut those people out of my fannish experience. On the rare occasion that a wank explodes so close to me that I can't just ignore it, then it's either time to call the FBI (which I've done once regarding seriously bad behavior in fandom) or time to take a few days' break from active fandom.

But, to repeat: When people in fandom behave badly, it is usually easy to cut them out of my fannish experience. It's much easier online than it is in person.

[kayljay.livejournal.com]

It's happened to me too. I posted an opinion about how a certain fic award, handled by a BNF, conveniently 'lost' certain stories--including mine. All of this person's followers, some who I thought were my friends and happened to win awards, leapt to her defense and trashed me. Needless to say my f-list went under the knife that day. I was upset for a few weeks, but figured I didn't need such toxic people in my life adding to my stress.

[thirdblindmouse.livejournal.com]

I don't have battles because if someone irritates me, I find it easy never to interact with them again. I guess it's because I'm in some very large fandoms and at peace with all the people in my smaller fandoms.

Anyhow, I'm way too busy getting my hate on for characters.

I think hatememes are ridiculous. Flame wars on purpose? Starting a hatememe is pretty much equivalent to trolling.

Are there ever any battles between two people who don't write fic? Maybe it's just because LJ is so full of fic writers, but it seems like it's always fic writers who are the ones at war. I've never seen a vidder war, for example.

[thelana.livejournal.com]

I think you can have people whose posting/arguing style you immediately dislike. Kinda the livejournal equivalent of somebody having a very high screechy voice. Can range from netspeak to very belligerent tl;dr to stating your opinions like you are writing a newspaper article [very annoying and something that I have actually met quite a bunch of time especially among male fans].

If I meet people like that I stay away out of their way. Mostly because I have this automatic dislike towards them that they don't deserve. If we talked we would definitely argue and rub each other the wrong way, even if there is nothing wrong with their opinion.

On the other hand, I have people with whom I can talk so well that we can have completely opposite opinions and we can still talk because our talking styles just mesh.

So I guess I don't have grudges (at least not that I'm aware of) because I think I back away from them on time when I feel like one might be in the air.

[azurelunatic]

I know exactly what you're talking about with the immediate dislike based on writing style. I remember some people from a fan group I haven't been near for years who did some very dreadful things with their words, and I was never able to warm to them.

[eleventh-guard.livejournal.com]

I don't have any major grudges. There are a few people that I dislike - one is an obnoxious "I'm right and you're wrong" 'shipper who thinks people who 'ship alternate pairings are sick and disrespectful of the canon, and another that comes to mind is simply very arrogant and pretentious (others, not just myself, have noted this.) But I don't argue with them or name names and try to get people against them. I just avoid these people as much as possible without inhibiting my own fan activity.

It's not so much what people say, it's how they say (or write) it. I know others in fandom that have similar 'shipping preferences and opinions as both of the people I can't stand to interact with, but they don't try to kick down other people's sandcastles, either; they simply stay away from what they don't like and occasionally rant about these things, not about the people that create them. Personal attacks, even in a "Not specific-you, but group-you" way, is a good way to irritate others.

[elanah.livejournal.com]

House fandom seems to have a bunch. Shipper wars, targeted trolling (lol capslockers), anon memes, the attitude that other shipper comms are like enemy camps. And it's magnified by the fact that people desperately want to be snarky like House.

Kind of fun to watch, but I never really get into it myself.

Jeeves and Wooster fandom, on the other hand, seems to be just about the happiest little fandom on earth. I've never seen anyone have an argument there. Makes me wonder a bit what effect the tone of the canon itself has on the conduct of the fandom.