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misscamDisclaimer: I like Rose. I like Martha. I like Sara. I like Catherine. I like Lady Heather. I like Cameron. I like Cuddy. I like a lot of female characters. Quite often, there's one or two things I can identify with, though I very rarely feel one of them is some sort of avatar for me. They do sometimes annoy me, but hey, so can my friends.
I hardly ever feel a particular need to hate on a character. I do however sometimes feel the urge to, if not hate on, grrr at other parts of fandom. (For varying reasons - personal differences, petty grudges, particular opinions I've felt offensive, that they've insulted me first... Blah, blah.) So I got to wondering - how much of character bashing is really trying to strike at the fans of that character? How much character hate is motivated by the way the fans of that character acts? How much does hating on your favourite character make you want to hate on another one, the one your 'enemies' really like? And how much is driven by shipwars?
What do you think?
Because I'm thinking there is quite often a personal element at work too. From my viewpoint, fictional characters should not inspire that much hate. Fictional characters should not inspire Anybodybut... sort of places. Not just on their own. There has to be something else at work. Doesn't there?
I hope so, because the amount of hate and energy put into that hate sometimes just makes me dive for the Wankshelter. It seems so... Stupid, and yet I get involved in petty grrr-ing stuff myself, even knowing it's bloody stupid. Why? (I think I can safely say that both people who really, really like Rose and people who really, really don't like Rose have both at different times inspired me to be stupidly contrary. Maybe because it makes me feel like there's no room in the middle. I've had similar reactions in CSI fandom and House fandom I don't even want to look at.)
I suspect the trouble is that fandom is full of humans. Humans only have I-POV, and anyone who has written a bit know why I-POV can be a pain in the ass. Maybe we should get ourselves a narrator - "And 'lo, then Cam was a hateful git."
But then, would anyone really listen to some annoying know-it-all?
Meanwhile, you can all do some for Martha and Rose non-bashing and sign-up for the Martha and Rose or Martha/Rose ficathon. Hurrah!
I hardly ever feel a particular need to hate on a character. I do however sometimes feel the urge to, if not hate on, grrr at other parts of fandom. (For varying reasons - personal differences, petty grudges, particular opinions I've felt offensive, that they've insulted me first... Blah, blah.) So I got to wondering - how much of character bashing is really trying to strike at the fans of that character? How much character hate is motivated by the way the fans of that character acts? How much does hating on your favourite character make you want to hate on another one, the one your 'enemies' really like? And how much is driven by shipwars?
What do you think?
Because I'm thinking there is quite often a personal element at work too. From my viewpoint, fictional characters should not inspire that much hate. Fictional characters should not inspire Anybodybut... sort of places. Not just on their own. There has to be something else at work. Doesn't there?
I hope so, because the amount of hate and energy put into that hate sometimes just makes me dive for the Wankshelter. It seems so... Stupid, and yet I get involved in petty grrr-ing stuff myself, even knowing it's bloody stupid. Why? (I think I can safely say that both people who really, really like Rose and people who really, really don't like Rose have both at different times inspired me to be stupidly contrary. Maybe because it makes me feel like there's no room in the middle. I've had similar reactions in CSI fandom and House fandom I don't even want to look at.)
I suspect the trouble is that fandom is full of humans. Humans only have I-POV, and anyone who has written a bit know why I-POV can be a pain in the ass. Maybe we should get ourselves a narrator - "And 'lo, then Cam was a hateful git."
But then, would anyone really listen to some annoying know-it-all?
Meanwhile, you can all do some for Martha and Rose non-bashing and sign-up for the Martha and Rose or Martha/Rose ficathon. Hurrah!
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no subject
Date: 2007-04-20 11:06 am (UTC)What is starting to annoy me, and ultimately has caused criticism of myself, is that the what's happening to Rose's character in the DW universe. I don't hate Rose as a character. I don't really relate to her, but I don't hate her. If I hated her, I certainly wouldn't have written so much fan fic with her as a central character. It's just right now I want to revel in the new companion for a while, and it seems some in fandom are determined to take away from that.
Now, I'm not going to say I'm innocent in all this. Some of my comments on my personal lj are rather harsh towards Rose's character, but it bothers me to see a flawed character like hers elevated to Mary Sue status by both her fans and the shows producers. Rose was not the perfect foil for the Doctor as some like to imply. But sometimes expressing those opinions in the climate of this fandom at the moment is very, very hard to do.
no subject
Date: 2007-04-20 12:07 pm (UTC)There are several HP characters that have been ruined for me because of the nutty behaviour I've seen from their fans and the acts they will do to prove the character's worth.
So much WORD here! It makes me sad, my negative reactions to characters and ships, sometimes. And I know that it's a factor of how I perceive the fans of those characters/pairings more than anything. So yeah, completely personal in that aspect.
It's just right now I want to revel in the new companion for a while, and it seems some in fandom are determined to take away from that.
And you know? That's okay! That you want to enjoy the new companion, that is. I say this mainly because I feel the same way (even if I did really like Rose). ;) I think, because shipping and/or companions is a touchy touchy subject, some feel that you have to be either On This Side or On That Side, and attribute any expression of admiration for either one as Proof Positive that you hate the other. Or, alternately, any pointing out of flaws MUST mean you hate that character and do not appreciate their full worth.
And this is not only annoying, but completely counterproductive. Maybe what you enjoy about a particular character is reveling in their flaws and how they handle the world around them based on that.
to see a flawed character like hers elevated to Mary Sue status by both her fans and the shows producers. Rose was not the perfect foil for the Doctor as some like to imply.
I think the show has actually taken a more "self aware" turn that, while not outright stating this, is ambling down this road. And I think, for now, they are succeeding in doing this without taking away from what the Rose and Doctor were. Which I really really love.