So...

[misscam]

How do I feel about what Thalia did?

I'm not going to be one of those who will say 'water under the bridge, you made a mistake, let's move on'. Some people have taken that path, and that's their choice. I've taken that path with some of the other people that have lied to me on the Net, so it's not like I'm terribly unforgiving. You apologise to me, and I tend to move on. Not like I haven't done stupid, stupid things myself. Sometimes, it's best just to forget and let it go.

But this is different to me.

For one thing, from what I have gathered, Thalia only owned up because she was backed into a corner and would have been revealed anyway. So, to me her reaction looks more like damage control than anything else. That's my feeling, I don't claim it to be true. But okay, say she's genuinly sorry. I might have been able to forgive her had it just been the Eliana thing.

But it's not, is it? There's also the plagiarism scams. And that... Maybe I'm a horrid, selfish person, but that I just can't get over.

The plagiarism scams came about just after I had been plagiarised. In fact, Thalia reported her first plagiarism scam just two days after the whole evilchild debacle started (if some of you remember that) in the beginning of February. Her e-mail starts with "Apparently, not only OFUM is being plagiarized anymore", even. Not only did she do this ploy once - she did it twice. The OFUM group supported her, flamed 'the plagiarist' and rejoiced when the stories were pulled. For nothing.

To me it looks like that I was plagiarised trigged her little scam. Maybe she saw the attention a plagiarism brings and desired some of the same, I don't know. But I feel... almost violated. Its like she cheapened that whole shitty experience. She thinks plagiairism is fun? Plagiairism is desirable to have happen to you? Well, she can certainly have all the times it's happened to me for free.

So I feel slightly stronger about this than others might. But even then, I might have been able to get over it, if I felt there was geuine remorse. But I'm not feeling it. Maybe because when I talked to her, I did not even get a personal apology. Sure, she has apologised in her journal, but that just to me looks like more drama. All I'm feeling is parrot-replies, with a whiff of 'pity me'. (But of course I could be seeing what I want to see. I want to resent Thalia, I see no remorse. That is possible.)

And this wasn't just some little lie. This was an eleborate scam, twice with the plagiairism incidents and then another one with invented Eliana. If she hadn't been backed into a corner on this, would she have staged even more attention and emotion-pulling stunts?

I don't know, but I think yes. And I'm not feeling any remorse from her. And I feel like she took a painful experience of mine, copied elements of it and pulled a pity-ploy. Does she even realise how that makes me feel?

Why should I forgive all this? Out of the goodness of my heart?

Well, my heart is just not feeling that good today. Maybe that makes me a lesser person, and maybe I shouldn't feel so personally offended by this all or so bitter, but there it is. This is how I feel about what Thalia did.

ETA: This is not meant to in any way, shape or form influence anyone else's opinion. I just wrote it down, as I'm feeling a lot of resentment and if I do nothing with it, it's just going to fester.

Comments

[arabel.livejournal.com]

For what it's worth, from someone not so involved in the whole thing, I got the same impressions of her apologies, threats to leave the net and so on.

Maybe I'm too much of a cynic too, but there you go.

[gehayi.livejournal.com]

I got the same impression. In fact, when she posted that she was going to leave the Net, I wanted to say, "Whatever. Don't let the door hit you on the way out." But that would have subjected me to a thousand attacks by her sockpuppets and supporters, so I didn't.

[starfishofelves.livejournal.com]

If you never forgive her, it is quite within your rights. She said that a lot of things had happened to her, things that some other people could sympathize with. (Did you notice the amounts of people posting comments saying "I've been harassed/plaigerized too"?) They've truly been hurt by these things, and then there's Thalia, jerking them around to get pity.
If you never forgive her, everyone will understand. That's not much in the way of comfort, but hey, it's 5:34 a.m.

Commenting from the sidelines

[suzine.livejournal.com]

*shrug* Personally, I got the impression that the pity-party was in full swing over at Thalia's journal...so I doubt you're imagining things. Never did take you for a willfully blind person, either, so I don't think you'd ignore genuine remorse simply out of your own personal anger.
Did she even try talking to you personally?
If you feel you're having trouble forgiving, why bother? She's in the wrong here- and she's getting enough support from other people, who apparently feel it's wrong to be angry at her. If she wants trust, she'll have to earn it- so let her sweat for it.
Uncharitable? Maybe. But it's justice, of a sort. Some would say she deserves worse.

[irian.livejournal.com]

Well, I'm not inclined to pity her either. Especially considering that had she not been cornered, she probably wouldn't have admitted to faking everything anyway. And she'd probably have chronically continued doing so. She's shown all the symptoms of a chronic liar so far, so why should we trust anything that she says? Why should we forgive her, when there's a big chance that she'll lie to us again? And her little stunts trivialize the experiences of people who have actually gone through being discriminated because of sexual orientation or plagiarized. And sorry Thalia, but I just hate attention-mongering in general. Especially when you don't really deserve it.

[veuki.livejournal.com]

*gently snuggles*

[elenculda.livejournal.com]

Personally, I agree with you. I think I started out a lot less angrier than I am now, but then I began to think harder about the matter, not about just the lies she's told lately but that fact that she has been lying chronically over the past two years.

I started to realise that the Thalia I had been friends with, is not the person I thought I knew. It wasn't just the made-up stories and staged plagiarism, although that was certainly bad enough, and a heinous crime unto itself. She lied on a continual basis, even in IMs. And this made me really sad, first because I was gullible enough to believe all of it... and second because she could do such a thing to people she is/was close to.

So I'm not trying to flame Thalia after all she's been through with her little confession, but really, it hurt me more than it did her. She may be suffering from her own lies now, but we, as the people she deceived, are first and foremost the victims. And I'm not really in a mood to try and look at things from her point of view right now.

~Shada

[reia.livejournal.com]

*hugs* I *completely* agree.

[maureenlycaon.livejournal.com]

A lot of people thought they knew Thalia. But it appears that no one really knew Thalia. Maybe even Thalia doesn't know who Thalia really is. What everybody knew was the facade, not the person.

And, to repeat what I've already said elsewhere and to agree with what others are saying: 1. I doubt she really feels any remorse, except maybe about being caught out; 2. I don't think your being hurt, angry and resentful makes you a lesser person or a bad or mean one.

Don't blame you one bit.

[dragonchan.livejournal.com]

(You probably don't know me, but I'm an OFUM fan swho got caught up in this mess through another journal.)
You've got every right to feel mad about this whole business. I kinda felt sorry for her in a way - silly girl, made a mistake - but not so sure anymore. Not if she's been pulling a few of these tricks.
I just wrote it down, as I'm feeling a lot of resentment and if I do nothing with it, it's just going to fester.
Go on. Let it all out. Better that than letting thing simmer if you feel this strongly.

[(Anonymous)]

At first I wasn't angry about it at all... I thought 'Oh, just one lie, why's everyone so upset?'. Now when I think about it I'm coming round to your point of view... I can't believe I trusted her and stuck up for her, and I feel angry with myself for being so dumb as to be taken in. But that's life. You've done nothing wrong anyway.
~Amy xx

[lotus79.livejournal.com]

{{*HUGS*}}

You have every right not to forgive her. Sometimes a person does something unforgivable, and it doesn't matter if others decide they can forgive her; if you can't that's fine.

She hasn't done anything to me personally, since I haven't been online enough lately to have even seen the Eliana thing unfold. And even though I believe you when you say plagiarism is a traumatic experience, I don't actually *know* because it's never happened to me.

That said, from the sidelines over here, I did have a fairly high opinion of her maturity before all this. Now I'm extremely disappointed in her. I'd be inclined to say to her "Go away for a few years and maybe I'll acknowledge you when you've grown up enough to realise that sometimes you won't be the centre of attention. Deal."

[psychicsaphie.livejournal.com]

{hugs you}

Personally, I wasn't very mad at first, because lately I haven't been very emotionally invested in what goes on on the net. I said some pretty nasty things to "Eliana" and defended Thalia just as loudly as everyone else, but I didn't really care and just wasn't really surprised when she fessed up. I'm not sure why. Maybe it's because I'm so, er, um, familiar with this sort of thing that I've just become jaded as to what I believe on the net. Also, it might be the fact that I'm one of the only ones that got a personal apology and that Thalia helped with my own emotional "Elianas" in the past.

However, I'm angrier now than I was before, not for what she did to me (because for some reason, it just didn't hurt me that much), but what she did to other people, like you. It's not changing how I intend to deal with her when she gets back, but I am angrier.

{offers you chocolate and hot males bound and gagged.} I'm sorry your shitty experience was mocked in all of this, even if I wasn't the one doing the mocking. Here's hoping it never happens again. (The shitty experience AND the mocking).

This is not meant to in any way, shape or form influence anyone else's opinion.

THANK YOU! When people were doing that, I was finding it very annoying. I don't like it when people tell me how to think.

[megpie71.livejournal.com]

Firstly, forgiving someone is something you choose to do or not to do. How much you forgive is up to you. You've been hurt. You don't see remorse, you don't see apologies (neither do I, to be honest), and you are well and truly within your rights *not* to forgive this.

Secondly, the key thing about forgiveness is it carries with it the obligation not to let the transgression you are forgiving affect you any longer. Most people tend to take forgiveness to mean "oh, I'll forget it for now, but bring it up later", which to me isn't true forgiveness. If you feel that you are not able to offer true forgiveness from your heart (which is, again, your decision) then you are not obliged to offer it.

You aren't being a horrid, selfish person by being hurt. You aren't being kind or nice if you try to pretend that you weren't hurt by it. Being bitter, or hurt, or offended, or anything like that is perfectly normal in the circumstances. Hells, given what's been going on, extreme meltdown "gods help us captain she's gonna blow" levels of fury are perfectly normal also. You aren't being evil by not participating in someone else's pity party. You aren't being horrible by refusing to come in on the other end of someone else's maladjustment.

You've been manipulated (as have a lot of us) and your responses (as with the responses of everyone else who has been involved in this) will vary according to the extent of the manipulation involved. I don't see myself as having been affected too much by this - but that's mainly because I've reacted to this incident in the light of a couple of previous ones where I'd thought a person was one thing, then discovered they were another, and I wasn't that close to Thalia. You're in a different situation, and I for one am not going to judge your response by my experience. You aren't me.

You're you. Do what feels right, trust your own heart, and ignore the idiots who tell you that you should be feeling differently.

To forgive or not to forgive?

[blackpearl500.livejournal.com]

Only you can decide whether or not you want to forgive/trust Talia. Whatever way you decide, I don't think anyone will blame you...

I agree.

[sassinak-wf.livejournal.com]

Goddess, I feel so sick. I e-mailed her, poured my heart out to her, saying that I understood her (and I did) and all the while she was lying. *shudder*

I'll admit to having my doubts about her. I've never seen anybody go through what she had claimed to be going through, and after 'Elenia' was 'expelled' I realised that she had to be lying.

I just feel so... I don't know how to explain it. I'm not surprised, I'm just so disapointed.

-Sassi (random OFUM fan)