(This rant/pondering/opinion was inspired by this secret posted at
fandomsecrets.)
I'll come right out and say it. Very, very few things bug me as much in fandom as the tendency to go actively hate on female characters and the way this is often done.
I've particularly come across this when dealing with het or slash pairings where the female in question is not in not included in that pairing, but might potentially be a hinderance, a threat or in that vein. This kind of hate often includes one or more of these aspects:
1) Degrading remarks like 'slut', 'whore, 'tramp' (etc), using sexuality against women.
2) Degrading remarks about the character's appearance, implying or stating outright she's unattractive, not worthy of another character's love and so on.
3) Degrading remarks about the characters' fans. Stuff like implying the fans are losers, as 'sad' as the character in question and so on.
4) Interpreting every action of the character in the worst possible light, while giving other characters much more leeway.
I'll give 4 a little more pass than the others, as it's a human thing in general to give favourites more leeway and want to see the bad in people you dislike, thereby justifying your feelings. I think it's good to keep in mind when having discussions about characters; awareness of your own bias in general is a good thing. 1 and 2 and somewhat 3? Bugs me the hell out. And this is often done by women. You might say that it's fictional characters, what does it matter? It matters when it's a mindset, when it's a mirror and a reflection of the current of sexism that still runs through society to varying degrees. I don't give it a pass in real life when I see it, whyever should I just because the characters are fictional? It's the mindset that bugs me more than anything, because I get bothered about this happening to characters I don't care about or even might not like that much myself.
However.
I also have a problem with how a lot of TV shows and movies and books write female characters. As a woman, a lot of potrayals feel sexist to me, overtly or subtly so.
(I admit I haven't always been the most conscious of this. Partly it's because I've been a silly teenager, and partly because I live in Norway and have handwaved some of this. Not that Norway doesn't have sexism, but I dare say we've come further than quite a few places and we deal with it in different ways. Quite simply, whenever I read or watch something American and British, I always have to put bits in a category of 'does not apply to me' due to cultural differences anyway and I fear some things have gone in there that shouldn't.)
A lot of this is simply that a lot of writing is still male dominated. (With exceptions.) This is not just a bad on males per say - women can have the same problems writing males at times. I see this in slash fiction and I've heard this from my brother about books he read by female authors with male protagonists. While I don't buy into the whole Mars and Venus divide (come on, we're the same species - stop using planets as an excuse for not having conversations) I do think it requires a bit of effort to cross the gender cap, whether you consider it a cultural construct or not. But! this does not go just for gender - it takes that effort to write about another culture too. Given how often that gets done badly too, perhaps this is a problem of preconcieved ideas guiding us more than genuine understanding.
My problem with a lot of writing of women is that a lot of times it feels like the character works as a category rather than a personality. She's a Love Interest, she's a Mother, she's a Hot Villain... Now, this doesn't necessarily mean I come to dislike a character I feel is written like that. I might, if it's a visual medium, find the acting compelling enough to overcome this and thus still like the character. Or I fill in my own blanks and nuances and like the character for what she is in my head.
(I'm pretty sure I've done this with both Rose and Martha in Doctor Who. I'm more inclined to do this with female characters in romance, I think, because I am a sap and enjoy a love story and want to enjoy it. So, if a show pushes a romantic pairing and I want to like that pairing, I am more willing to work my way around having problems with how the woman might be written.)
But I still have this niggling, bubbling, persistent annoyance that more and more seem to camp out in my brain and I'm not sure I want it to go away. I want to enjoy my recreational habits (TV, movies, books), but why must I handwave sexism in varying degree to do so? That's not okay, you know. It's really not.
Am I making any sense here or am I rambling?
I guess my point boils down to this: I abhor a lot of the bashing of female characters in fandom, and at the same time often have problems with the portrayal of women in fiction. (And in real life media, hoo yeah.) I don't think either excludes the other, because both can be motivated by sexism, consciously or otherwise. And whenever I find awesome female characters that writing and portrayal makes so, I am all the more happy.
So now I'm thinking about doing a Female Character Appreciation Week - spotlighting some fictional women I really like. I already know I'd stick in Laura Roslin, Miranda Bailey (I don't much like Grey's Anatomy these days, but she kicks ass from here to Jupiter) possibly Harriet Jones and/or Sarah Jane and a couple of other candidates. Who would be yours and why? I'd like to spotlight some beyond my fandoms too - and feel free to add yours reasons to those I've mentioned.
I'll come right out and say it. Very, very few things bug me as much in fandom as the tendency to go actively hate on female characters and the way this is often done.
I've particularly come across this when dealing with het or slash pairings where the female in question is not in not included in that pairing, but might potentially be a hinderance, a threat or in that vein. This kind of hate often includes one or more of these aspects:
1) Degrading remarks like 'slut', 'whore, 'tramp' (etc), using sexuality against women.
2) Degrading remarks about the character's appearance, implying or stating outright she's unattractive, not worthy of another character's love and so on.
3) Degrading remarks about the characters' fans. Stuff like implying the fans are losers, as 'sad' as the character in question and so on.
4) Interpreting every action of the character in the worst possible light, while giving other characters much more leeway.
I'll give 4 a little more pass than the others, as it's a human thing in general to give favourites more leeway and want to see the bad in people you dislike, thereby justifying your feelings. I think it's good to keep in mind when having discussions about characters; awareness of your own bias in general is a good thing. 1 and 2 and somewhat 3? Bugs me the hell out. And this is often done by women. You might say that it's fictional characters, what does it matter? It matters when it's a mindset, when it's a mirror and a reflection of the current of sexism that still runs through society to varying degrees. I don't give it a pass in real life when I see it, whyever should I just because the characters are fictional? It's the mindset that bugs me more than anything, because I get bothered about this happening to characters I don't care about or even might not like that much myself.
However.
I also have a problem with how a lot of TV shows and movies and books write female characters. As a woman, a lot of potrayals feel sexist to me, overtly or subtly so.
(I admit I haven't always been the most conscious of this. Partly it's because I've been a silly teenager, and partly because I live in Norway and have handwaved some of this. Not that Norway doesn't have sexism, but I dare say we've come further than quite a few places and we deal with it in different ways. Quite simply, whenever I read or watch something American and British, I always have to put bits in a category of 'does not apply to me' due to cultural differences anyway and I fear some things have gone in there that shouldn't.)
A lot of this is simply that a lot of writing is still male dominated. (With exceptions.) This is not just a bad on males per say - women can have the same problems writing males at times. I see this in slash fiction and I've heard this from my brother about books he read by female authors with male protagonists. While I don't buy into the whole Mars and Venus divide (come on, we're the same species - stop using planets as an excuse for not having conversations) I do think it requires a bit of effort to cross the gender cap, whether you consider it a cultural construct or not. But! this does not go just for gender - it takes that effort to write about another culture too. Given how often that gets done badly too, perhaps this is a problem of preconcieved ideas guiding us more than genuine understanding.
My problem with a lot of writing of women is that a lot of times it feels like the character works as a category rather than a personality. She's a Love Interest, she's a Mother, she's a Hot Villain... Now, this doesn't necessarily mean I come to dislike a character I feel is written like that. I might, if it's a visual medium, find the acting compelling enough to overcome this and thus still like the character. Or I fill in my own blanks and nuances and like the character for what she is in my head.
(I'm pretty sure I've done this with both Rose and Martha in Doctor Who. I'm more inclined to do this with female characters in romance, I think, because I am a sap and enjoy a love story and want to enjoy it. So, if a show pushes a romantic pairing and I want to like that pairing, I am more willing to work my way around having problems with how the woman might be written.)
But I still have this niggling, bubbling, persistent annoyance that more and more seem to camp out in my brain and I'm not sure I want it to go away. I want to enjoy my recreational habits (TV, movies, books), but why must I handwave sexism in varying degree to do so? That's not okay, you know. It's really not.
Am I making any sense here or am I rambling?
I guess my point boils down to this: I abhor a lot of the bashing of female characters in fandom, and at the same time often have problems with the portrayal of women in fiction. (And in real life media, hoo yeah.) I don't think either excludes the other, because both can be motivated by sexism, consciously or otherwise. And whenever I find awesome female characters that writing and portrayal makes so, I am all the more happy.
So now I'm thinking about doing a Female Character Appreciation Week - spotlighting some fictional women I really like. I already know I'd stick in Laura Roslin, Miranda Bailey (I don't much like Grey's Anatomy these days, but she kicks ass from here to Jupiter) possibly Harriet Jones and/or Sarah Jane and a couple of other candidates. Who would be yours and why? I'd like to spotlight some beyond my fandoms too - and feel free to add yours reasons to those I've mentioned.
no subject
Date: 2008-08-18 09:02 pm (UTC)I'd second nominating Granny Weatherwax, but I'd also add Susan Sto-Helit, Nanny Ogg and Angua from Discworld.
Then, I'd like to add more or less half the cast from Buffy the Vampire Slayer, but I'll settle for Buffy, Wilow and Faith.
Donna from Doctor Who. Because she's as far from a "woman added as a love-object" you can get.
Neil Gaiman's Coraline. Because she kicks ass.
Lynne Stone from "Girls just want to have fun". Because she's that best friend you always wish you had. Plus, she kicks ass.
My list could go on and on. ^_^
Have you got any concrete ideas for how this appreciation week would happen?
no subject
Date: 2008-08-19 11:58 am (UTC)Dunno yet, it'll have to be after my holiday in any case.
I love so many of the Discworld women, I do.