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misscamAlways so nice to know one is not even worth a personal apology. Thanks. Really.
And why is people going all 'oh, you're a bad friend if you don't forgive?' Dude, I am not telling you how you should feel or what is right for you, so *kindly* don't attempt to guilt me or go holier-than-thou.
*rubs temples*
Aaah... Ignore me. I'm feeling angry and frustrated and hurt and vengeful and tired... Not my best side, obviously.
And you probably have no idea what I'm on about in the first place, so... Yeah. It's been one of those days.
And why is people going all 'oh, you're a bad friend if you don't forgive?' Dude, I am not telling you how you should feel or what is right for you, so *kindly* don't attempt to guilt me or go holier-than-thou.
*rubs temples*
Aaah... Ignore me. I'm feeling angry and frustrated and hurt and vengeful and tired... Not my best side, obviously.
And you probably have no idea what I'm on about in the first place, so... Yeah. It's been one of those days.
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no subject
Date: 2003-12-01 08:05 pm (UTC)"Those days" suck. Especially when you find out your mere existance makes someone you love feel bad about themself, and have to handle that. But whatever. Not being self-indulgent in someone else's journal.
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Date: 2003-12-01 08:16 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2003-12-01 08:17 pm (UTC)*pats*
Self-indulgence is what livejournal is all about, innit?
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Date: 2003-12-01 08:38 pm (UTC)Feeling angry with myself for feeling this way, which ain't helpful either.
It's just one of those sucky, sucky moods.
Ack.
Date: 2003-12-01 09:22 pm (UTC)For what it's worth...
Date: 2003-12-01 09:24 pm (UTC)2) That said, I quite agree with you on the whole "forgive and forget" crud. Forgiving implies forgetting, but until you've forgotten, or until you've reached the point where the pain isn't hot enough to be forgotten or at least disregarded, you aren't ready to forgive. So having someone else tell you how you should be forgiving a person isn't worth a good goddam.
3) Angry, frustrated, hurt, vengeful, tired... you left off "human" from the list. Don't beat yourself up over it.
4) *hugs*
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Date: 2003-12-01 10:14 pm (UTC)Re: For what it's worth...
Date: 2003-12-02 04:02 am (UTC)*hugs*
Date: 2003-12-02 04:40 am (UTC)Everyone's human, and yes, you did deserve an apology. So don't get pissed off at yourself and your character, cos let's face it, it wasn't you that made the mistakes, was it?
I didn't like that comment either, the 'if you don't forgive you're a bad person' one. I haven't forgiven some people for what they did to me, so according to this person I'm an evil, heartless bitch. Well no. I'm a bitch, but I'm not heartless, and neither are you. You have every right to be mad, so don't think yourself a bad person ^_^
*hugs*
~armeniel xxxx
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Date: 2003-12-02 05:04 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2003-12-02 07:59 am (UTC)I'm offended, too. Not a word. Not a single email, phone call, nothing.
But there was no direct blow to me. It's really horrible that there's been no apology to you.
~Shada
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Date: 2003-12-02 08:30 am (UTC)Re: *hugs*
Date: 2003-12-02 09:04 am (UTC)~armeniel xxxx
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Date: 2003-12-02 09:37 am (UTC)Forgiveness is overrated. What a person who has been wronged needs, what the world needs, isn't forgiveness but justice. Sadly, much of the time, justice simply isn't possible -- at least not quickly.
In any case, the person who committed the wrong certainly has no business making noises about the value of forgiveness.
no subject
Date: 2003-12-02 07:55 pm (UTC)Anyway, Miss Cam, you already know how I feel about you feeling bad about not getting an apology. So all I'll say is that I talked to the "true friends forgive" person on AIM, and she told me that what she meant is that true friends forgive EVENTUALLY, even if it takes months/years/decades. I don't know if that makes anyone feel any less angry at her (if "angry" isn't too strong a term), but it worked for me.
no subject
Date: 2003-12-02 08:44 pm (UTC)(Scratches head in befuddlement)
Re: Ack.
Date: 2003-12-02 08:45 pm (UTC)Situation does rather suck, yeah.
Re: For what it's worth...
Date: 2003-12-02 08:52 pm (UTC)But thank you. *offers Norwegian chocolate*
Re: For what it's worth...
Date: 2003-12-02 08:53 pm (UTC)Re: *hugs*
Date: 2003-12-02 08:57 pm (UTC)What would I be other than human? I realise some people are convinced Norwegians are actually polar bears, but however would we type with such great paws?
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Date: 2003-12-02 09:00 pm (UTC)I like to think I wasn't in the wrong, but what do I know?
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Date: 2003-12-02 09:03 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2003-12-02 09:04 pm (UTC)*sighs*
It's not like we were really friends, though, so maybe I should just shut up.
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Date: 2003-12-02 09:07 pm (UTC)And I think Toey sneaked into your room.
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Date: 2003-12-02 09:20 pm (UTC)Re: For what it's worth...
Date: 2003-12-03 04:35 am (UTC)I really agree with what you've said on the subject, and think you're perfectly entitled to feel upset, and not to be happy with the idea of pretending nothing happened. *shrugs, and sighs*
Where did those elves get to...?
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Date: 2003-12-03 06:35 am (UTC)She wouldn't be getting away with this shit without all these people crowding around her, cooing, "Oh, welcome back."
I think grudges and willpower get a bad rap. I know I won't forgive her till she apologizes, and does it in a sincere way, not that, "I'm-sorry-if-I-hurt-anyone's-feelings-way-feel-sorry-for-me-I'm-confused!" kind of way.
Re: *hugs*
Date: 2003-12-03 06:43 am (UTC)I suppose if you were a polar bear, you could always have an enormous magical keyboard to type things with... maybe not ^_^
~armeniel xxxx
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Date: 2003-12-03 07:25 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2003-12-04 08:13 am (UTC)Believe me, I can be completely rational when I'm raving mad. It adds an entirely new level of insanity to the mix, if you understand what I mean.
~Shada
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Date: 2003-12-04 06:30 pm (UTC)I try not to let it annoy me that others forgive her - it's their choice, after all - but I do get seriously peeved when people are essentially telling me I'm a bad person because I won't forgive. My life, my choice. And when I then find out I'm not even on the radar of those she considers deserve an apology - well, I get testy. And as you said, we inhabit the same circles, which means I am constantly reminded of this. *sighs* It's just... I was born and raised in Northern Norway, where you bear your hardships and shut up in most cases. We're much less verbal about our worries than, say, a lot of Americans. And I'm also raised to be tough, so face shit in life with good humour. So, when things bring me down too much, I beat myself up a bit over it. Which of course isn't terribly helpful in the first place, but there you are.
Re: *hugs*
Date: 2003-12-04 06:31 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2003-12-04 06:33 pm (UTC)I get all self-analytical when I'm pissed - trying to analyze why I'm so mad, and what this tells me about myself and so on.
But I still think that those who were her friends are probably most deserving of an apology. I shouldn't be on top of her list of people to apologise to - but I think I should be on it, damnit.
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Date: 2003-12-04 06:34 pm (UTC)That must be Toey's second cousion from Australia.
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Date: 2003-12-04 07:21 pm (UTC)The problem is, I think, is not just Thalia and her enablers. It's the realization that a lot of the problems that seemed to characterize bad fanfiction writers also seem to be infecting other circles---like the ones that you and Thalia belong to.
I just keep picturing her as winding up like Jayson Blair or Stephen Glass----two reporters here who were recently exposed as having falsified major stories for major publications. Give her ten years, and I'll buy you a drink if I'm wrong.
Er...Norwegian chocolate? I have Russian chocolate to trade. It's divine. And therapeutic. Self-discipline truly, I find, truly makes the occasional indulgence especially sweet. Balance is good. :)
Re: *hugs*
Date: 2003-12-05 09:10 am (UTC)~armeniel xxxx
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Date: 2003-12-05 09:28 pm (UTC)Rating probably is healthy, I'm just used to doing it on the inside. Hence why I didn't confront Thalia directly, which I could have. Although now she says she will give personal apologies, so we'll see how that goes. (Watch me not hold my breath in anticipation)
There does seem to be a change in the PPC circles of late, and I'm not sure how I feel about it. Or just what it is and potentially what to do about it.
Russian chocolate is good. We get it cheap from across the border, but I still prefer Norwegian. Belgium trumps both, though. Now *there's* divine chocolate.
no subject
Date: 2003-12-06 01:53 am (UTC)