*is mad*

[misscam]

Always so nice to know one is not even worth a personal apology. Thanks. Really.

And why is people going all 'oh, you're a bad friend if you don't forgive?' Dude, I am not telling you how you should feel or what is right for you, so *kindly* don't attempt to guilt me or go holier-than-thou.

*rubs temples*

Aaah... Ignore me. I'm feeling angry and frustrated and hurt and vengeful and tired... Not my best side, obviously.

And you probably have no idea what I'm on about in the first place, so... Yeah. It's been one of those days.

Comments

[laurelin-kit.livejournal.com]

*offers condolences* It's never fun when you don't get an apology you deserve.

"Those days" suck. Especially when you find out your mere existance makes someone you love feel bad about themself, and have to handle that. But whatever. Not being self-indulgent in someone else's journal.

[misscam.livejournal.com]

I don't know if I deserved the apology anymore than some of the others involved in this, I just... Felt that I at least should matter enough for that, you know? At least an acknowledgement.

*pats*

Self-indulgence is what livejournal is all about, innit?

[laurelin-kit.livejournal.com]

You matter to many, many people. Don't let the overlooking of one let you forget that. ^_^

[ginmar.livejournal.com]

I know exactly what you mean, if it's any consolation. Exactly.

[misscam.livejournal.com]

Thanks.

Feeling angry with myself for feeling this way, which ain't helpful either.

It's just one of those sucky, sucky moods.

[ginmar.livejournal.com]

Don't diminish what you feel. I was thinking about anger the other day, and unless you're the sort of person who has temper tantrums----which you don't seem to be----your reaction is entirely within bounds. To compound matters, you both inhabit a circle of friends who seem determined to 'make nice' and get it over with, and if that means kicking shit in the eyes of all the people she hurt, well, oops, too bad for you, right?

She wouldn't be getting away with this shit without all these people crowding around her, cooing, "Oh, welcome back."

I think grudges and willpower get a bad rap. I know I won't forgive her till she apologizes, and does it in a sincere way, not that, "I'm-sorry-if-I-hurt-anyone's-feelings-way-feel-sorry-for-me-I'm-confused!" kind of way.

[misscam.livejournal.com]

I'm more the 'able to hold a grudge until hell freezes over' than the temper tantrum kind, really.

I try not to let it annoy me that others forgive her - it's their choice, after all - but I do get seriously peeved when people are essentially telling me I'm a bad person because I won't forgive. My life, my choice. And when I then find out I'm not even on the radar of those she considers deserve an apology - well, I get testy. And as you said, we inhabit the same circles, which means I am constantly reminded of this. *sighs* It's just... I was born and raised in Northern Norway, where you bear your hardships and shut up in most cases. We're much less verbal about our worries than, say, a lot of Americans. And I'm also raised to be tough, so face shit in life with good humour. So, when things bring me down too much, I beat myself up a bit over it. Which of course isn't terribly helpful in the first place, but there you are.

[ginmar.livejournal.com]

Your stoicism is to be commended, obviously. But when I see comments like this----If your friends cannot accept your apology and forgive you, then they are not truly your friends.---I know which side I'm on. I'd frankly advise you to rant, bitch, moan. There's a healthy difference between ranting and complaining. I think ranting is healthy; whining is not. You rant about stupid things that are wrong. You whine about stuff you got yourself into. Let it out. Vent. Of course, I know there's the culteral divide to consider, but it can be helpful.

The problem is, I think, is not just Thalia and her enablers. It's the realization that a lot of the problems that seemed to characterize bad fanfiction writers also seem to be infecting other circles---like the ones that you and Thalia belong to.

I just keep picturing her as winding up like Jayson Blair or Stephen Glass----two reporters here who were recently exposed as having falsified major stories for major publications. Give her ten years, and I'll buy you a drink if I'm wrong.

Er...Norwegian chocolate? I have Russian chocolate to trade. It's divine. And therapeutic. Self-discipline truly, I find, truly makes the occasional indulgence especially sweet. Balance is good. :)

[misscam.livejournal.com]

I'll take that offer for a drink. Although, if you're right, I'll probably need a drink even more so. I'll probably need absinthe by then.

Rating probably is healthy, I'm just used to doing it on the inside. Hence why I didn't confront Thalia directly, which I could have. Although now she says she will give personal apologies, so we'll see how that goes. (Watch me not hold my breath in anticipation)

There does seem to be a change in the PPC circles of late, and I'm not sure how I feel about it. Or just what it is and potentially what to do about it.

Russian chocolate is good. We get it cheap from across the border, but I still prefer Norwegian. Belgium trumps both, though. Now *there's* divine chocolate.

Ack.

[beautyid.livejournal.com]

Ack ack ack. Maybe she's going to apologise. Maybe she just doesn't know what to say. Blah. Anyway, I noticed that 'if you don't forgive you're a sucky person and blahblahblah' too, and I don't think that's right at all. If you want to forgive, forgive. You you don't, don't. That's your business. This whole situation just sucks anyway. :-(

Re: Ack.

[misscam.livejournal.com]

I doubt any apology is forthcoming, and anyway, if it comes now, it would just be because I made a fuss or she wanted to save face, you know? At least that's how I would see it.

Situation does rather suck, yeah.

For what it's worth...

[megpie71.livejournal.com]

1) Can understand the frustration and betrayal involved. Not necessarily feeling it, but can understand how you got there. It is *never* good being treated like crap.

2) That said, I quite agree with you on the whole "forgive and forget" crud. Forgiving implies forgetting, but until you've forgotten, or until you've reached the point where the pain isn't hot enough to be forgotten or at least disregarded, you aren't ready to forgive. So having someone else tell you how you should be forgiving a person isn't worth a good goddam.

3) Angry, frustrated, hurt, vengeful, tired... you left off "human" from the list. Don't beat yourself up over it.

4) *hugs*

Re: For what it's worth...

[arabel.livejournal.com]

Word to all of that. Including the hugs.

Re: For what it's worth...

[misscam.livejournal.com]

Thank you. *offers Norwegian chocolate all around*

Re: For what it's worth...

[arabel.livejournal.com]

*smears some of the chocolate on a few Noldorin elves, and passes them around too (still somehow looking dignified, if slightly grumpy)*

I really agree with what you've said on the subject, and think you're perfectly entitled to feel upset, and not to be happy with the idea of pretending nothing happened. *shrugs, and sighs*

Where did those elves get to...?

Re: For what it's worth...

[misscam.livejournal.com]

I am of the 'beatine yourself up' type, I fear. I do it over a lot of things - for better or worse, I suppose. Sometimes it's good to beat yourself up a bit. Maybe not in this case, though. I don't know.

But thank you. *offers Norwegian chocolate*

*hugs*

[armeniel.livejournal.com]

Well, for what it's worth, I think you're fantastic, both as a writer and from what I know of you as a person. You're like my online idol ^_^ And you know why? Because as well as being a brilliant writer, you're human, and you have normal feelings.

Everyone's human, and yes, you did deserve an apology. So don't get pissed off at yourself and your character, cos let's face it, it wasn't you that made the mistakes, was it?

I didn't like that comment either, the 'if you don't forgive you're a bad person' one. I haven't forgiven some people for what they did to me, so according to this person I'm an evil, heartless bitch. Well no. I'm a bitch, but I'm not heartless, and neither are you. You have every right to be mad, so don't think yourself a bad person ^_^

*hugs*

~armeniel xxxx

Re: *hugs*

[armeniel.livejournal.com]

Oh yeah by the way I got up off my lazy ass and sent you the fanart ^_^ Hope it cheers you up a little :)

~armeniel xxxx

Re: *hugs*

[misscam.livejournal.com]

*blinks*

What would I be other than human? I realise some people are convinced Norwegians are actually polar bears, but however would we type with such great paws?

Re: *hugs*

[armeniel.livejournal.com]

Ahh you know what I mean... :)

I suppose if you were a polar bear, you could always have an enormous magical keyboard to type things with... maybe not ^_^

~armeniel xxxx

Re: *hugs*

[misscam.livejournal.com]

Ah, drat, you found me out.

Re: *hugs*

[armeniel.livejournal.com]

Ah hah! I knew I had to be good at something... maybe polar bear hunting's the career for me ;)

~armeniel xxxx

[ladyiapetus]

I think I have a pretty good idea of what you're talking about. And if I'm right, then you're perfectly within your rights not to forgive. No one said all friendships last forever. If this one isn't meant to last then no one should be forced to make it last, especially if you aren't the one who was in the wrong.

[misscam.livejournal.com]

If you were thinking Thalia, you were right.

I like to think I wasn't in the wrong, but what do I know?

[elenculda.livejournal.com]

I know what you're talking about.

I'm offended, too. Not a word. Not a single email, phone call, nothing.

But there was no direct blow to me. It's really horrible that there's been no apology to you.

~Shada

[misscam.livejournal.com]

I don't know if I'm specially entitled to an apology. I feel like I am to a certain degree, but feelings are hardly rational.

*sighs*

It's not like we were really friends, though, so maybe I should just shut up.

[elenculda.livejournal.com]

Just because you aren't friends with someone doesn't mean you aren't deserving of an apology. If you're wronged, you're wronged.

Believe me, I can be completely rational when I'm raving mad. It adds an entirely new level of insanity to the mix, if you understand what I mean.

~Shada

[misscam.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I rather do.

I get all self-analytical when I'm pissed - trying to analyze why I'm so mad, and what this tells me about myself and so on.

But I still think that those who were her friends are probably most deserving of an apology. I shouldn't be on top of her list of people to apologise to - but I think I should be on it, damnit.

[irian.livejournal.com]

There are some things that just take a while to fogive, if at all. If the person you're talking about is who I think it is, that is.

[misscam.livejournal.com]

Probably is.

And I think Toey sneaked into your room.

[irian.livejournal.com]

Ooops. Out, Tooey, and I mean OUT!

[misscam.livejournal.com]

Tooey?

That must be Toey's second cousion from Australia.

[irian.livejournal.com]

Ooops. That was a parting shot from Toey, who thankfully has finally left the building.

[maureenlycaon.livejournal.com]

You've got my complete support, as you know.

Forgiveness is overrated. What a person who has been wronged needs, what the world needs, isn't forgiveness but justice. Sadly, much of the time, justice simply isn't possible -- at least not quickly.

In any case, the person who committed the wrong certainly has no business making noises about the value of forgiveness.

[mercuriazs.livejournal.com]

That is so Confucianist. (And that was not delivered in a bitchy tone, arms akimbo, in case anyone was wondering. I like Confucius.)

Anyway, Miss Cam, you already know how I feel about you feeling bad about not getting an apology. So all I'll say is that I talked to the "true friends forgive" person on AIM, and she told me that what she meant is that true friends forgive EVENTUALLY, even if it takes months/years/decades. I don't know if that makes anyone feel any less angry at her (if "angry" isn't too strong a term), but it worked for me.

[maureenlycaon.livejournal.com]

Uh, I'm Confucianist?

(Scratches head in befuddlement)

[mercuriazs.livejournal.com]

It was just a Confucianist sentiment. "Repaying wrongdoing with justice ..." He was big on that stuff. *nod nod*

[misscam.livejournal.com]

So she thinks everything is forgivable, then? Well, I disagree. And I don't like emotional blackmail, which it came across as to me. I'm probably taking it all wrong, but I really, really found her comment offensive.